Should your hands ever be used for movement or to hold position?

[ChillyWaters]

As for the linear thought, my degree in music and computer science would disagree.

Why is that?

- ChillyWaters

 

[Soggy]

Why is that?

Because both require a substantial amount of abstract thought.

 

[Walter]

it's that there are more effective ways of controling your motion. Those who know how to use their fins understand that. Those who don't will claim that they need their hands.

When I was a new diver, I sometimes used my hands to make a quick turn. With more experience, I learned that not only was it not necessary, it was less effective.

 

[ChillyWaters]

Because both require a substantial amount of abstract thought.

A degree doesn't guarantee this. The number of students that can't "think outside the box" is unreal.

- ChillyWaters

 

[JeffG]

A degree doesn't guarantee this. The number of students that can't "think outside the box" is unreal.

Divers too

 

[Soggy]

A degree doesn't guarantee this. The number of students that can't "think outside the box" is unreal.

Ugh....can we please stay on topic, or do you really feel the need to question my abilities as a musician and programmer without knowing a thing about me? I was both of those things long before I was a diver...just because I know some of what works and what doesn't in diving doesn't mean I can't think outside of the box...it just means that I've discovered what works and filled my box with those things. Linear thought is not something that people who know me outside of diving would accuse me of.

If you want to argue, argue with my logic or go back to your corner.

 

[ChillyWaters]

Divers too

Yup. But one should ask questions to first understand the constraints of the box they are in. Only then can one safely extend beyond the box.


(JeffG, do you like dumb-*****, and not quite right, analogies?)

- ChillyWaters

 

[ChillyWaters]

Ugh....can we please stay on topic, or do you really feel the need to question my abilities as a musician and programmer without knowing a thing about me?

Touchy. I just said a degree in x doesn't mean you are good at y. I didn't say you weren't good at y. I'll let you go back on topic now.

- ChillyWaters

 

[lamont]

And yet... there you are swimming underwater for an hour or more.

There are parallels and equivalences. Drawing an analogy between hands and pectoral fins is not saying that hands *are* pectoral fins. Just as an analogy between the wings of a plane and the wings of a bird doesn't mean that airplanes are birds. The point is that fish have a variety of fins for a variety of specific tasks, moving in different directions and different speeds. The caudals are the strongest and most efficient. But it's not always about efficiency. Sometimes it is about dexterity. I doubt there is a person on this board that has nearly as fine motor control over their feet as with their hands. You can move your hands in different directions and speeds than you can move your feet.

Of course you should use your fins for propulsion and steering at least 95% of the time. But why take it to the point of being anal retentive? An occasional use of hands in tight situations is going to have a statistically insignificant effect on your efficiency. If one is that obsessed with efficiency, then they had better not be turning their head from side to side while diving either. I'm all for improving skills and techniques but there's no reason to be a dive snob about it.

Generally people who feel the *need* to use their hands are compensating for lack of skill. You can see this in video reviews comparing them side-by-side with people who don't. Plus, learning to avoid the use of hands builds up skills in being deliberate about your motions underwater, which is the huge payoff. Once every motion underwater is a deliberate, conscious motion you get much more relaxed and then see the benefits of lower SAC rates and less flailing around. You want to be swimming around kind of like docking a boat, where you don't make a lot of sudden movements. Generally people who use their hands aren't being deliberate about it...

 

[ReefHound]

And at the last moment, to avoid hitting something or someone, I'd use my hands (and have). But frankly, it almost always represents a failure to anticipate and correct my momentum before it got that far.

Whatever the reason, there are situations. Look, I wasn't saying you would need to use your hands much of the time, maybe not at all on most dives. But it could also be a failure on the part of your buddy for blocking you in and having his face next to your fins. Right or wrong, I don't want to kick anyone in the face. Even if it's your own failure, that will happen now and then, unless you are the perfect diver. Who here is?