Should we take the barnacle off the turtle

[DA Aquamaster]

So, you're saying that the professionals concluded that you'd committed a felony but they decided not to report you?

And you're also confessing that you are a felon, that you committed a felony?

(By implication by the way, so is anyone whose done a crystal river swim/dive to see the manatees-it's the same statute.)

This whole thing is silly-I found the answer to my question elsewhere.

It's called proper use of officer discretion.

For example, let's say your house is on fire and you're inside unconscious. If I kick in the door and in effect break in to your house to save you, it's not going to be considered a criminal act as I am not breaking and entering for the purpose of either illegal trespass or to commit a felony.
However a really poor police officer could potentially arrest me for it, and in the extreme a really poor prosecutor could charge me for breaking and entering but the reality is that a judge would dismiss the case for lack of merit at the preliminary hearing stage. A good police officer would instead use discretion to "ignore" the B&E since it's obvious there was never any intent to commit a crime but rather the intent was to save your argumentative and bullheaded self, for reasons that will probably remain a mystery to all involved.

In the case of the turtle, what was done was just good enforcement. The turtle got saved and the diver got thanked - but the very finite limits of what is and is not allowed were covered and other possible approaches with the various pros and cons were discussed. That's what a good officer does - order maintenance and public service as opposed to strict and rigid law enforcement.

 

[miketsp]

Quite amazing some of the comments on this thread.
One of the places we regularly visit there are a lot of turtles and wrecks and it is very common to see the (older) turtles rubbing their shells against the iron structure in order to free themselves from barnacles that have grown right through their shell and are irritating them. I was shown by a local diver how to remove barnacles and during this procedure the turtle stayed quite calm and still on the bottom - accustomed to the procedure that the local divers have performed for them for many years.
Now obviously, no one is going to harass a turtle or try to perform the procedure if the turtle doesn't want to remain still. At many other sites where I have dived with turtles it's clear that they would not calmly accept this.

But from what I saw at this location the turtles fully understood what was being done.

 

[djcheburashka]

Quite amazing some of the comments on this thread.
One of the places we regularly visit there are a lot of turtles and wrecks and it is very common to see the (older) turtles rubbing their shells against the iron structure in order to free themselves from barnacles that have grown right through their shell and are irritating them. I was shown by a local diver how to remove barnacles and during this procedure the turtle stayed quite calm and still on the bottom - accustomed to the procedure that the local divers have performed for them for many years.
Now obviously, no one is going to harass a turtle or try to perform the procedure if the turtle doesn't want to remain still. At many other sites where I have dived with turtles it's clear that they would not calmly accept this.

But from what I saw at this location the turtles fully understood what was being done.

Well, I was asking the question in advance of asking the turtle it's view. Otherwise, I think you're the only person who posted an actually informed answer to my original question.

 

[OldNSalty]

The law that was given sounds straight forward enough-how do you read it?

 

[djcheburashka]

The law that was given sounds straight forward enough-how do you read it?

Don't molest, harass, disturb, kill, etc. turtles. (In relevant part.)

I can't molest something without touching it, but I can touch it without molesting it. I *can* harass or disturb something without touching it. I can also harass or disturb something by touching it.

Therefore "touch" does not equal "harass, disturb, molest." Molest means molest, harass means harass, disturb means disturb, and if the legislature meant "touch" one of them surely had a dictionary available and they could have saved a few words.

Would removing a barnacle from a turtle be molesting, disturbing, or harassing? I suppose that depends on the method of removal and the preference of the turtle.

 

[miketsp]

Well, I was asking the question in advance of asking the turtle it's view. Otherwise, I think you're the only person who posted an actually informed answer to my original question.

Just to complement my answer. Most barnacles on turtles are superficially attached and probably represent just additional drag but are not really an irritant to the turtle. The times I have stepped in to remove a barnacle is when I've seen a turtle making an active effort to free itself of one. In these cases after removal it has been clear that the barnacle has penetrated the shell to at least some extent.

There is an interesting article on barnacles at:
http://decapoda.nhm.org/pdfs/31753/31753.pdf

 

[Wookie]

There's a sea turtle who lives at a dive site I visit often. He has a barnacle on his shell. Should we take it off for him? If so is there a particular way to go about it that he'll mind less, or to minimize potential damage to his shell?

1. The people involved weren't law officers.
2. I've never heard of an officer exercising "discretion" to overlook a *felony*. That's just ridiculous.
3. If you think that ordinary police officers are in a position to decide what's good or bad for wildlife...

I'm not going to bother engaging you in some kind of debate about this - you're not engaging at a level that makes it worth the time.

Please, feel free to continue to believe that in the state of Florida it is a felony to touch a turtle without a license. Have fun with that.

I refer back to the OP. you ask for an opinion. "should we take it off for him". You got lots of them. Most were opinions that said no, or it's against the law. You crapped all over everyone's opinion that you asked for. Now I understand what a stupid question is. A stupid question is one where you have already made up the answer in your head, regardless of the answers you get from those who may or may not be wiser than you. Next time, keep your stupid questions to yourself.

 

[tahqa]

I understand the law that I quoted quite clearly and I also understand that the legal definition of harassing includes unwanted touching. And even though this is from a "wiki" it still backs me up -- "Yes, it is. US federal law prohibits touching (which they consider "harassing") sea turtles. The fine, if caught, varies depending on the area. For example, in Hawaii, the fine is $10,000 for touching a Green Sea Turtle."

The truth is that you are apparently bound and determined to be a good samaritan and remove that barnacle regardless of what everyone is telling you. Yes, there are some people that have special exemptions and will remove barnacles from sea turtles that approach them. I highly doubt that you have such an exemption. Yes, you will most likely not get in trouble if you were to touch a sea turtle to remove fishing line or something else that is endangering its life. But the law is what it is and pretty much every dive boat captain will tell you to not touch sea turtles.

Read more: Is it illegal to touch a sea turtle

Is it illegal to touch a sea turtle

 

[paulw]

There's a sea turtle who lives at a dive site I visit often. He has a barnacle on his shell. Should we take it off for him? If so is there a particular way to go about it that he'll mind less, or to minimize potential damage to his shell?

First as to the original question I believe that if the animal just sits there and allows you to remove it I see no harm BUT that is an opinion and worthless unless you agree.
Second I cant believe I read all of this, we have discussed how stupid we all are so what's next, meet on a neutral board for a keyboard fight

 

[djcheburashka]

First as to the original question I believe that if the animal just sits there and allows you to remove it I see no harm BUT that is an opinion and worthless unless you agree.
Second I cant believe I read all of this, we have discussed how stupid we all are so what's next, meet on a neutral board for a keyboard fight

Thank you for offering a thoughtful opinion.

This particular turtle has has several barnacles, most of which it seems to have removed itself (presumably by scraping against things). But it has one, the largest, that persists. I infer from this that barnacles actually bother the turtle (it removed the others) but it can't remove this one itself because its too mature and stuck-in. On the other hand, I'm not sure i know a way of removing a stuck-in the barnacle without subjecting the turtle to extraordinary stress. So I'm looking into a way to do that.

I think the answer may be to kill the barnacle in situ and let its carapace weaken over time, but I'm not sure.

I don't intend to do anything until and unless I can figure out a way to not stress the turtle.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD