Should there be a Solo Diving discussion section on this forum?
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We should not allow diving, PERIOD, unless the buddies Know each other, are HIGHLY trained, and in addition do a minimum amount of training TOGETHER. Let's certify diver TEAMS that can be truly safe.
Otherwise, we are ALL solo diving.
Otherwise, we are ALL solo diving.
jhelmuth
Contributor
So the fact that it a course supported by TDI/SDI should put it on par with DIR - right? (If you think I'm wrong, please show me the light that illuminates the difference - legally - between these 2 SCUA organizations - remember, legally.)
[1] At one time, mixed gasses (Nitrox, Trimix) were not accepted practices (arguments were made that you'd die from such stuff). Now it is taught, accepted, and recognized as the "best" way to perform some dives (even some rec dives in the case of Nitrox and dives beyond 60 fsw). Things change. Have an open mind and examine things more carefully.
[2] Could an attorney use the lack of information (yet the mention of such techniques - such as solo diving) as a means to prove some liability. IE - you knew this, but witheld the information, or banned the discussion, such that you contributed to the death for not having provided more ample warrnings and information around the risks and how to avoid them (for those who are certified) as well as where to get the certification, etc. I don't know the answer(s) to this, but I'm curious if there is not some issue here.
[3] You have a forum on technical diving, mixed gases, etc. These are properly trained forums and do not suggest to anyone that the untrained can use the information to "dive" this way. Yet, those who argue that solo diving is different, and that it leads to liability, do not rcognize the correlation to the certification given from TDI/SDI. Tell me how this is different?
By all accounts, Pete should lock down every forum and only provide a forum for "safe" rec dives less than 60 fsw (the lowest common denominator on this board - OW cert.)
Someone please fill in the blanks here!
MadisonK
Contributor
I am a new diver with about 20 dives under my belt. All but 6 of them (the 4 open water with the instructor and the 2 open water for dry suit certification) have ended up with me without my buddy.
I have been diving with 4 -5 people for lobsters and scallops from my boat in 50 feet or less of water. I am trying to gain experience before I go deeper or do more. However, the first thing I noticed when diving here in Mass is that the visibility causes you to loose your dive buddies by the time you hit bottom.
Noticing that I was pretty much diving solo (I understand the distinction) on each of these dives I thought I would ask my dive shop about this practice. They relucantly agreed that looseing contact with your buddy is a fact of life around here and that there are ways to dive more safely given that this is going to happen. He went on to explain some of these ways....
I think the point I am trying to make is that I searched out this forum for information on diving because I am conservative by nature and kowledge is power. I would be helped by a forum on solo diving given that all of my dives end up this way. I want to depend on myself first and others second. I still plan on diving with partners either in the water or on the boat by the way but it would be nice to have the knowledge to be as safe as possible.
I have been diving with 4 -5 people for lobsters and scallops from my boat in 50 feet or less of water. I am trying to gain experience before I go deeper or do more. However, the first thing I noticed when diving here in Mass is that the visibility causes you to loose your dive buddies by the time you hit bottom.
Noticing that I was pretty much diving solo (I understand the distinction) on each of these dives I thought I would ask my dive shop about this practice. They relucantly agreed that looseing contact with your buddy is a fact of life around here and that there are ways to dive more safely given that this is going to happen. He went on to explain some of these ways....
I think the point I am trying to make is that I searched out this forum for information on diving because I am conservative by nature and kowledge is power. I would be helped by a forum on solo diving given that all of my dives end up this way. I want to depend on myself first and others second. I still plan on diving with partners either in the water or on the boat by the way but it would be nice to have the knowledge to be as safe as possible.
As someone said a while ago here, buddy separation due to low vis ISNT a valid argument for solo diving.
Any half decent buddy should be able to maintain contact where visibility is about a foot or less.
It ISNT difficult and if you keep losing buddies on dives you need to take a long hard look at buddying skills (or lack of) and not use it as an excuse for solo.
Any half decent buddy should be able to maintain contact where visibility is about a foot or less.
It ISNT difficult and if you keep losing buddies on dives you need to take a long hard look at buddying skills (or lack of) and not use it as an excuse for solo.
Don't know if you're being sarcastic, but you just defined a part of (from what I've read on SB) DIR's philosophy. If you believe the DIR philosophy, you must either keep silent, or post that solo diving is unsafe. To do otherwise is to cast doubt on a total belief system.spthomas:
BTW, many of us should never solo dive due to rule #1.
Gotta' go. Mark's Grandma's calling...
You bring up a good point. While it's a great idea to have a buddy nearby in the event of an emergency, your experience is pretty common, or at least it's happened to me more times than I can recall.
I think the issue is one of self-sufficiency, rather than rejection of the buddy system. Self-rescue skills are key in developing one's confidence as a diver. I do shallow solo dives pretty frequently, as do many of us in South Florida, but believe in the buddy system and adhere to it pretty rigidly when I'm doing boat dives or dives deeper than 20 feet or so. I find that planning every dive as if it were a solo dive helps me mentally prepare myself to handle whatever may come along, without expecting to be rescued by the scuba cavalry if something goes awry. That being said, it's a wonderful thing to dive with a buddy who understands the spirit of the buddy system, who stays close but not too close, who enjoys sharing the sights, and who communicates safety/dive parameters clearly and often.
I might recommend a little book called Solo Diving: The Art of Underwater Self-Sufficiency, by Robert Von Maier. I've found it helpful.
I'm looking forward to seeing how this thread develops.
-Grier
I think the issue is one of self-sufficiency, rather than rejection of the buddy system. Self-rescue skills are key in developing one's confidence as a diver. I do shallow solo dives pretty frequently, as do many of us in South Florida, but believe in the buddy system and adhere to it pretty rigidly when I'm doing boat dives or dives deeper than 20 feet or so. I find that planning every dive as if it were a solo dive helps me mentally prepare myself to handle whatever may come along, without expecting to be rescued by the scuba cavalry if something goes awry. That being said, it's a wonderful thing to dive with a buddy who understands the spirit of the buddy system, who stays close but not too close, who enjoys sharing the sights, and who communicates safety/dive parameters clearly and often.
I might recommend a little book called Solo Diving: The Art of Underwater Self-Sufficiency, by Robert Von Maier. I've found it helpful.
I'm looking forward to seeing how this thread develops.
-Grier
I'm not saying solo diving (intentional solo diving) is good. Or bad. I'm saying that the VAST majority of dives are really solo diving. If we REALLY believe in buddy diving as a vital part of the safety of this sport, we should have MUCH more stringent rules on what a buddy is, and to enforce such.
I question the actual added safety of the buddy system as praciticed today. I just don't think it'd doing what many think it's doing. And those vehemently opposed to solo diving should be vehemently opposed to unsafe buddy diving, which is what we have in many if not most cases.
A case in point. If we as a dive industry require buddy diving for safety, we should have rules that say you absolutely must bring your buddy with you, and you cannot, under any circumstances, be paired with someone you don't know on a dive boat. It's just not safe.
I question the actual added safety of the buddy system as praciticed today. I just don't think it'd doing what many think it's doing. And those vehemently opposed to solo diving should be vehemently opposed to unsafe buddy diving, which is what we have in many if not most cases.
A case in point. If we as a dive industry require buddy diving for safety, we should have rules that say you absolutely must bring your buddy with you, and you cannot, under any circumstances, be paired with someone you don't know on a dive boat. It's just not safe.
spthomas:
I agree except that I don't think we should "require" anything.
jhelmuth:
I think the difference between Solo diving and other types of Tec diving is that joe newbie diver is highly unlikely to say "Hmm, I read about it on the board, I think Im going to blend up some trimix whack it into a cis luna, and give a 300 ft cave dive a go".
Solo Diving (as has been shown by newbie posts on this thread) it is easy for a novice diver to say "oh well, I guess I cant find a buddy today, I have dived here before, I guess it will be ok"
that is my objection to this being discussed outside the technical forums.
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