Should there be a Solo Diving discussion section on this forum?

[paolov]

Solo Diving should not have it's own thread and be concealed , it should be in the open for all with interest in solo diving, for or against doing it solo. so those with the inclination may hear out opposing views and have a more or less informed examination of what they are to get themselves into.

SOLO diving is NOT FOR EVERYONE. it is only for individuals with the proper attitude, experience, training and most of all REASON for doing SOLO diving.

 

[Scubaguy62]

A question for all those opposed: Besides trying to deny others their right to take risks during a dive as they deem fit, risks which may be lower than the ones you take or those fully accepted and discussed here - what other logical reasons of substance do you have to prove your point, which is not equally applicable to non solo forms of diving?

No one is denying anyone their right to take risks, at least not me. But about the only way in which I see the risk of solo diving as lower than those of buddy team diving, is that instead of the possibilities of two divers dying, only one would, and one who may just be an important person to someone or perhaps to a family, who will then be deprived of knowing what happened, or perhaps a body to burry. Even if either my wife or I are trained in solo diving, neither her, nor I would accept the other one going solo. That's a risk that is not only the diver's, but also the family's. Scuba Diving is dangerous enough as it is, to throw another risk factor in the fire!

For those who are in favor, if you do not have a family, perhaps you can think of your mothers, or fathers, and if you don't have them, by all means, go out and take all the risks you want, because when you die, no one will be there to mourn you.

 

[RobJon]

The original question was "Should there be a Solo Diving discussion section on this board?" People have voted, let democracy rule. I solo dive, I understand the risk involved but given the choice between not diving because I can't find a buddy and diving by myself, I'll take diving solo. If you are opposed to solo diving don't do it. I would like to have a forum to discuss the subject.

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

Sharing information is always a good thing.

Please allow me to simplify and assume, in order to make a point...

The earlier post by a junior diver has been used a couple of times to illustrate that solo diving should not be discussed openly. Here's the way I see it:

JrDiver does a solo dive.

JrDiver finds this thread, and posts an interest in knowing more about solo diving.

Several SrDivers get the oportunity to inform JrDiver that his solo dive was a bad idea.

JrDiver now has more resources and facts to use in the future. Whether or not he decides to persue solo diving we may never know. However, he now has more information on which to base that decision.

IMO we (over 18) can all make our own decisions, and the more information is available, the better enabled we are to do so.

But I agree, maybe not under "Basic Discussions."

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I maintan my position, there is no place in the BASIC SCUBA DISCUSSIONS FORUM for solo diving
and I consider this thread dangerous and contrary to the safty of divers in general until it is eithre locked or moved to a more advanced forum as general tec discussions.

Oddly enough, no one made any mention that the new forum be in the basic scuba section, at least until you mentioned it. In fact just the opposite is the case as the original post suggested it be a sub category of tech diving:

I believe it would be an asset to the dive community, and specifically to the members of this forum, to have available a board category for the discussion of Solo Diving. Just like those so many others have, including cave and wreck diving. A sub category of technical diving for solo diving would be most appropriate.

Mark, it seems to me that you are in fact in agreement with Scuba that it would be most appropriately placed in the tech section.

Maybe next time focus on reading the whole thread before you start disagreeing in bold print. I think we already had more than enough tension in the thread already without adding another imaginary item to argue about.

Completely different scenario's. One is a discussion forum over a particular dive philosophy that while it is controversial, is an approved agency and by all accounts stresses safety. The other (solo diving) is also controversial, but doesn't stress safety and is recognized by only a handful of RSTC members.

I imagine it would be akin to having a forum to discuss drunk driving... "since we all do it anyway, it would be good to discuss the best way to do it" just doesn't cut it. ESPECIALLY from a liability perspective. If someone adopts DIR philosophies they learned from the Internet, that's not more likely to kill them - you can't say that about solo diving.

If I were Pete (and I'm not) I wouldn't touch solo diving with a 10 foot pole.

Wonderful example of the responses a dedicated solo forum would prevent, as long as those opposed to solo diving demonstrated the self control required to stay out of it.

As a solo diver, I think your response and your drunk driving analogy is inflamatory and inaccurate in addition to being rigid and intolerant. It is also internally inconsistent in that you are ok with open forums for other tech diving pursuits such as wreck penetration and cave diving. Your argument also ignores the fact that there still are, even despite your theory on natural selection, a fair number of wreck and cave divers (admittedly more of the former than the latter) who choose to dive solo for very sound, if personal, reasons.

Properly done, solo diving is all about adopting a healthy attitude toward safety, planning and preparation, and accurate assessment of conditions as well as the diver's abilities and limitations. Solo diving very much involves the careful development of pre-requisite skills and a careful and well thought out approach to gear configuration. It is very similar to DIR from that standpoint with the major difference being that solo diving promotes self sufficiency and the judgement to know when to cancell or call a dive as opposed to promoting teamwork and knowing when to cancel or call a dive.

 

[Scuba]

No one is denying anyone their right to take risks, at least not me. But about the only way in which I see the risk of solo diving as lower than those of buddy team diving, is that instead of the possibilities of two divers dying, only one would, and one who may just be an important person to someone or perhaps to a family, who will then be deprived of knowing what happened, or perhaps a body to burry. Even if either my wife or I are trained in solo diving, neither her, nor I would accept the other one going solo. That's a risk that is not only the diver's, but also the family's. Scuba Diving is dangerous enough as it is, to throw another risk factor in the fire!

For those who are in favor, if you do not have a family, perhaps you can think of your mothers, or fathers, and if you don't have them, by all means, go out and take all the risks you want, because when you die, no one will be there to mourn you.

I do agree that diving accidents can affect more than just the person diving. This holds true for any type of diving. In the event of a loss of life, there is an overall greater chance of not recovering the body of a solo diver. Steps can be taken to mitigate this, and the risk of not recovering a body from a buddy team is not only there, but it does happen. This is a risk solo divers and those near and dear to them must be willing to accept. Just as other forms of diving present their peculiar risks, such as being lost in a cave or wreck, or in the depths of the ocean.

Solo diving does throw in another risk factor into the equation. And so do many types of advanced diving such as the tec categories. As well as factors such as ignorance, lack of preparation, lack of skills, lack of proper gear, complacency. No one is exempt.

I would even agree to the following comparison in general terms: conditions being average and equal, the risk factor would likely be less for a competent team then a competent solo diver, overall. But it gets more complicated than this. The risk will vary based on specifics. How much of a difference is there? How do we weigh the risk of a buddy causing an emergency that otherwise would not happen? Is a competent solo diver at greater risk in a conservative dive than a competent tec diver team in a more aggressive dive? How about compared to a new diver pushing his limits, unprepared.

Not so simple, is it? All types of divers take on risks to varying degrees. There is no one category, rec, cave, wreck, deep, solo, - that is always safer or more dangerous than another. So the question remains, why are these other forms of risk taking readily accepted by many, while solo is presented as the forbidden fruit?

I'll take a shot at it. Peer pressure. Acceptance of established norms, that which we know and are comfortable with. Prejudice. Adopting a defensive posture to support and reassure our beliefs. Resistance to change. Biased analysis resulting in a flawed conclusion. Limited perspective. And so forth .......

Do you feel the same way about the risk increase taken in tec diving than more conservative diving? Risk increase taken by careless divers in conservative dives than prudent divers? If not, why not? What is the fundamental difference? Is it more than a biased point of view?

The ocean is big enough for all of us. But I'm afraid - our minds are not.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

In my opinion, there is more opposition to solo diving in the present from some members of the GUE/DIR set than there ever was in the past from mainstream rec divers despite the long history of rec cert agencies discouraging solo diving.

I suspect this is due to the DIR focus on teamwork and the related philosophical basis of that group and their mother agency. That however is really not a problem as they, as both individuals and as an agency, can have their own philosophy and dive however they like.

Where it crosses the line from a philosophoical difference to a predjudice or personal attack is when some extreme and vocal members of that group dogmatically adhere to their philosophy and make the mistake of thinking that their philosophy gives them the right to dictate how things should be to everyone else with a "if you don't do it my way you don't know s---" attitude. That gets old really really fast.

The important things to remember are that:

1) One person's rights end at the point they begin to infringe on the rights of another.

2) Everyone has the right to express their opinion, and

3) Everyone should be shown respect even if they may have and express opinions that differ from your own.

If everyone considered these points before posting, the incidence of nasty comments and arguments would drop to near zero.

 

[AADiveRex]

I'm all for it, under the technical diving section. Putting it the general population would be ignoring the basic fact that solo diving, even in a recreational setting is technical diving.

Adam

 

[DORSETBOY]

I agree with Boogie,

A solo dive forum is right up there with the "how to drive drunk" and "family fun with explosives" forum

Dorset boy, you have a lot to answer for on this one buy starting your previous thread. I hope you never get to hear about any deaths that occur from newbies seeing this discussed in open forum and then unsuccessfully giving it a go. I think the whole thread should be removed.

MORE THAN 80% OF DIVERS WHO DIE UNDERWATER DIE AFTER GETTING SEPARATED, OR WHILE SOLO DIVING.

This really is a bt out of order Mark, first of all I would never knowingly encourage solo diving amonst the ill equipped / poorly trained. Secondly, I am trying to encourage debate on what is obviously a VERY controversial topic. Thirdly, I was trying to find out WHETHER People had ben tempted to solo dive without proper training or equipment.

Oh and if you're going to use figures to make a point, then please keep them relevant. If you are using figures to suggest that solo diving is more dangerous (which may well be the case) then why include figures relating to divers getting seperated from their buddys?

Final point I promise! Where was the necessity to personalize your point against me?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

If you are using figures to suggest that solo diving is more dangerous (which may well be the case) then why include figures relating to divers getting seperated from their buddys?

I agree with you there. A case of a buddies getting separated from each other and ending up solo, often with zero preparation or training for the situation, is entirely different then a diver intentionally diving solo with proper training.

It is not uncommon in a buddy situation for one buddy to follow another into a bad situation or into a situation that incrementally exceeds their capabilities in the belief that the buddy will be there to bail them out and get them back alive.

Solo diving in contrast is totally about self reliance and knowing your limitations and remaining conservatively within them. As such, properly done, solo diving eliminates two of the major killers faced by buddy divers in that you are never going to have a false sense of security from a buddy being present and you are never going to end up at the scene of someone else's accident.

You just cannot use stats about the deaths resulting from a failed buddy situation and expect to draw accurate or meaningful conclusions about the safety of solo diving.

You also need to consider that in many of those fatal situations had both buddies been properly trained and equipped to solo dive that their chances of survival may well have been much higher due to better equipment, better skills and increased self reliance/self rescue skills.

You are in a sense advocating a total focus on good buddy techniques which in my opinion ignores the basic fact that S---happens and that eventually virtually every buddy will find him or herself alone at some point in time.

Solo divers acquire a whole new skill set that prepares them for that eventuality and to top it off they can still opt to buddy dive when the conditions or situation dictate. It gives a great deal more flexibility than a diver who has no training in solo techniques.