Should Shearwater add Air Integration to its computers?

[Lorenzoid]

What's with the black & white, all or nothing view on how this would go down? If Shearwater produced a rec. dedicated computer it's fated to be loaded with every junk function, novelty and gadget? . . . .

Of course not. There is certainly a gray area in between. Shearwater would only need to change their motto to: "Just as Powerful. Slightly less Simple. Possibly slightly less Reliable."

 

[SillyQuestions]

Couldn't agree with DevonDiver more!

As for junk added to computers, AI, HR monitors, air time remaining, audible alarms, lock outs and ridiculous algorithms.

 

[pedro_rj]

So what, exactly, would make a 'recreational' Petrel the best recreational computer?

The screen? No...
The algorithm? No...
The size? No....

What people are asking for is a Suunto with the name Shearwater on it.... in a 'cool' black case with bolts holding the screen on... and a technical 'heritage' that makes the user seem to be a more accomplished, trained or educated than they actually are...

Andy, you're far more experienced than me and surely have a larger sample of new divers to draw upon. Maybe most rec divers are indeed idiots looking for status as you say, and maybe "non-tech" dive gear only caters for non-existing needs.

I can speak for myself though: as a photographer, the petrel screen, the (non-trimix) algorithm and the size would do me good. As would AI.

I don't see how that makes me a brainwashed idiot with non-existing needs looking for status. Above all I still don't see how AI would be hurtful to the tech community. You're assuming Shearwater would derail if they even think of non-hardcore tech divers. Maybe you should give them a bit more credit, no?


As AJ said in this thread, maybe the price would be too high to make AI viable. If that's the whole problem, fair enough. But that's not what is being discussed here.

 

[CuzzA]

This is a bit of the problem with discussions like this. People are doing so many different types of diving.

I'll tell you what. AI is freaking awesome for someone like a Gulf Spearfisherman or shooting photography. I don't have to stop what I'm doing, let my gun/camera down and my guard down while I unclip my SPG, check my air, check my computer to make sure my dive is going as planned. Nope, instead both hands are on my gun/camera, a quick glance to my wrist mounted "heads up display" and within a second I've processed all of the relevant dive data... Oh and I didn't miss that fish because I was focused on gathering data from an inconvenient/cumbersome location.

Would adding AI act as bridge that pulls over some rec divers to tech?

I don't believe so. I would think the driving force behind why someone would want to get into technical diving is to explore the parts of the underwater world that can't be reached by recreational diving, not because one popular computer manufacturer suddenly offers AI. I do think they would get a great boost in sales though.

Does AI have its place in tech diving. I don't know, but I bet if Shearwater came out with an optional AI computer, tech divers would use it. Not all, but a lot would. We see a lot of electronics making their way into rebreathers and no one is saying that's a bad idea.

My thoughts are simply this... AI works. IME, my computer has never failed to provide gas data. AI is a very nice feature for a wrist computer. Again, I love the fact I can glance at my wrist and within a second I have processed all of the relevant data about my dive. I'm seriously considering removing my SPG and depth gauge and putting a backup computer in my pocket and leaving the SPG in my dive bag. Because it's been that reliable. Of course I wouldn't do that for technical diving, but for rec, no problem. In the unlikely event my AI actually failed I would head up to the boat, grab my SPG, maybe eat a sandwich and head back down.

 

[kelemvor]

I've voiced my opinion on this more than once already. Yes, they should offer a solid computer with hoseless AI and :gasp: audible alarm options. I'd pay extra for the feature even as I replaced my two petrel and one Galileo with two of the new model.

For me, hoseless AI is about having complete log data. Without hoseless AI, the details are simply incomplete. Sure you can calculate gas use based on recorded pre and post dive pressures. You can also calculate nitrogen loading with depth guage and a wristwatch...

When I want those features today, I'm forced to dive something other than a shearwater. It's a shame, really.

For those that complain about not wanting a computer to have a feature.. they don't get a lot more useless than integrated digital compass... at least in my opinion. Amazingly, that feature hasn't caused the petrel 2 to fail in mass quantities, nor has it caused the price to increase dramatically.

 

[SillyQuestions]

Digital compass is of great use for underwater cave surveying as the accuracy you can read an analogue compass is much less.

Unless you take a surveying compass, but that's an extra piece of gear so we save that for much more detailed surveys than ones on exploration.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CuzzA]

I love the digital compass on my AI Icon. I can mark multiple headings and guess what? While I'm watching the compass, I can still see my gas, NDL, depth and switch to a map of the wreck I'm diving.

 

[rongoodman]

Would adding AI act as bridge that pulls over some rec divers to tech?

I doubt it, since in the tech world AI is usually viewed as useless at best, and additional points of failure at worst.

 

[DevonDiver]

I can speak for myself though: as a photographer, the petrel screen, the (non-trimix) algorithm and the size would do me good. As would AI.

1. There are other computers with the same, or better (OLED) screens on the market.
2. The Buhlmann algorithm is open source and used on many computers (rec mode merely removes the GF decisions).
3. Plenty of equally sized computers on the market.

So why specifically Petrel?

That's what I just don't get... Shearwater design technical instruments. The Petrel is king of the hill right now. So, obviously, recreational divers aspire to it. But, in reality, they don't like the functionality of a tech computer. So they want a dumbed down version, with added gadgets and gimmicks. That'd turn the Petrel into the SAME PRODUCT that other computer manufacturers are already making. But those computers aren't lauded by technical divers, because they are dumbed down and gadget ridden... So if Shearwater released a dumbed down version, it'd be slated by technical divers. It wouldn't be 'cool'.

This happened with Liquivision. They had the 'king of the hill' computer before Shearwater.... the X1. A real trailblazer... Everyone salivated over it. Recreational divers bought them... and hated them.... too confusing. So Liquivision bowed to demand and created a range of recreational-focused computers. They have AI and everything... ohhhh... Technical divers wouldn't touch them though. Liquivision lost focus on their core market.... and now what? They rarely get a mention...

People might cite Shearwaters' excellent customer service. But if Shearwater sold their (tech) soul to scoop up rec computer market share...grew in size dramatically.... do you really think that customer service could be retained? I doubt it....

All I hear is Petrel, Petrel, Petrel.... then some waffle about screens and algorithms... LOL Do you even...?

 

[drrich2]

As for junk added to computers, AI, HR monitors, air time remaining, audible alarms, lock outs and ridiculous algorithms.

In this & other recent threads the value of A.I. to some has been so well-established that writing it off a junk is ridiculous.

Air time remaining provides a useful estimate to potential gas time remaining. Many rec. dive plans are less structured than tec. dive plans, and divers are free to take advantage of whatever gas they've got. Sure, change your depth, get stressed, exert more, etc..., and the numbers change, but it can at least give a diver a rough estimate of about how much time he's got. Some of us find this quite useful, and it does no harm being present. Nothing 'junk' about that.

Audible alarms, on the condition you can turn them off if desired, can serve as a backup measure. I've got a computer alarm set for around 700 or 750 PSI or so. Doesn't mean I don't watch my gas pressure & rely on the computer to tell me when to turn a dive. It's just there in case for some bizarre, unforeseen reason, I someday am not paying enough attention & my gas gets that low at depth. I don't plan to ever let that happen. The price I pay is that at the end of some dives, hanging out on a safety stop for example, or messing around the shallows at the end of a shore dive, it may squawk. Not a big deal. Not useful for everyone, and a feature that should easily be turned off, but I don't think it's credible to write it off as 'junk' just because you don't have a use for it.

Lock outs. I thought they were junk, and maybe they are. One possible alternative. Maybe those computers not designed to provide deco. guidance on repetitive tec. dives simply can't be relied upon once one has ventured into that realm, especially if some deco. has been 'blown off,' and this is the computer (manufacturer)'s way of saying 'Buddy, you've exceeded my intended use, and I can't guide you with an acceptable margin of safety. You're on your own until you return to a condition I can handle.' Not Big Brother trying to stop us from diving because we 'misbehaved.'

Heart Rate Monitors - yeah, I got nothing on that. I could try to speculate something but...uh, yeah.

Ridiculous algorithms - as many posts as I've seen on this forum where people brag about how conservative they dive, and as great as our gaps are in knowledge of how deco. risks apply to the individual diver on a given dive, it's hard to judge. I wouldn't likely buy a Suunto. Some on this forum indicate concerns about Suunto's cutting dive time short are exaggerated, and some think it's significant. How ridiculous are more conservative algorithms for rec. dive computers? Hard to say.

Richard.