Should Shearwater add Air Integration to its computers?

[Superlyte27]

Remember that Shearwater is a business, and good business needs to grow its market share.

If Shearwater could integrate an AI on its computer - especially if it could read other's transmitters - they would take over a large share of the Galileo market. Not all of it, because Galileo folk tend to be data addicts. The Shearwater desktop would need to be expanded to capture the rest of it.

The AI "on / off" could simply be a switch in the settings. The current fans would see nothing different. The AI screen would been just another choice of view. Shearwater's current "rec" setting and display is masterful in that it entices recreational divers who have the wherewithal to purchase their computers. Once bitten, forever addicted!

I find the opinion that a business shouldn't do something because someone, somewhere may misuse its products totally over the top controlling.

I disagree. But only recently.
Last year I took a job that was by far the leader in its industry. BUT, our prices were sky high on the commodity that we dealt in. Now, our business was pretty much busy from start to finish, morning til night. At some points, we were so busy, our staff couldn't come even close to keeping up with the demand. It was one day like this that I realized that we were operating at maximum capacity for our building, staff, location, etc. Imagine if we were also the cheapest. There's NO WAY we could keep up with the traffic.

Shearwater is the leader in the products it sells. And their customer service is unmatched in any industry anywhere. Sure, maybe they are only catering to 10% of the diving population, but if they are operating from the perfect position because of their perfect market share, then reaching to millions of divers (the recreational market) instead of tens of thousands of divers, could be a giant mistake.

At any rate, I think they got this pretty well figured out. I don't see them screwing up now what they've been doing right all this time without AI.

 

[undrwater]

The thing that attracted me to the Petrel was this statement from the manual.

This computer will fail. It is not whether it will fail but when it will fail. Do not depend on it. Always have a plan on how to handle failures. Automatic systems are no substitute for knowledge and training.

No technology will keep you alive. Knowledge, skill, and practiced procedures are your best defense (Except for not doing the dive, of course).

I bought it first because of the attitude of the manufacturer, then because of the openness of the platform including open source dive profiles, then because of the reports of amazing customer service, then because of the display, and finally because I had some credit card reward $ I could use to purchase.

Personally, I don't NEED the AI, but like Jax, I'm a data head and I use the AI typically AFTER the dive where I get to see the air info along with everything else. Others have stated some very well stated needs for the activity they want to do (they want to maintain a grip of their camera or fish without having to juggle and unclip an SPG which means they need a solution that keeps the information in their line of sight).

Currently, I don't see any benefit of AI for multi-gas, multi-cylinder extended deco divers. That argument has been clearly made as well.

How many of you "tech" divers are also rec divers? How many of you are data heads?

 

[hroark2112]

Firstly, I've stated time and again that there is a drastic mindset shift when people progress to technical diving. That mindset is part of the formal education....and something you can fail a tech course for. It also exists for a reason. Technical dives will kill you if you mess up. In contrast, recreational diving is very forgiving and you'd have to almost try to kill yourself.

Does that mindset make us pompous or arrogant?... not in the slightest. The diving we do creates different priorities and principles, that's all.

If open water classes started out with statements like "Training is bought, certification is earned!" or "Payment of course fees is no guarantee of certification!" like most tech classes do, far fewer people would enroll. By the time divers are taking tech courses, they understand this mindset.

It's not arrogant, but most good tech divers are confident.

 

[DevonDiver]

How many of you "tech" divers are also rec divers?

That's actually kinda hard to answer easily..

I'm sure most, if not all, technical divers also complete non-deco, non-overhead, or single gas dives. Even for the most dedicated technical diver, there will be shallow skills training/practice dives, non-deco exploratory/planning dives prior to deco in a new location/environment, testing new kit under safer circumstances etc etc etc

Even where technical divers do actual recreational diving (single tank, reef tours etc...) do they resort to a recreational diving approach or configuration? Or do they retain a great deal of their technical diving approach and mindset?

For me, diving sidemount, then there's very little practical difference between a 'tech' dive and a 'rec' dive. My core rig remains identical - less the deco cylinders. For the sake of muscle memory, familiarity and ingrained responses, I keep my recreational approach as close as feasible to my technical solutions.

For a lot of technical backmount divers, they often replace a double-tank wing with a single tank... but the harness, configuration etc remains the same. They'll even use a long-hose/bungee back-up with single tanks/1 regulator.

A technical diver who teaches recreational diving might put on a jacket bcd for instructional purposes, but that's a professional, rather than personal, consideration.

How many of you are data heads?

I consider myself a 'data head', but I've never needed AI. I've tracked my SAC/RMV for many years and have a very clear idea of my gas requirements for any given dive. I don't need a computer to do that.... as all the info is readily available from my dive parameters and gas usage. I know my average SAC/RMV, from the basis of hundreds or thousands of dives.... and I know how my SAC/RMV can vary from that dependent on exertion or task loading.... or even the quality of my sleep the night before.

I recognize that a less experienced diver doesn't have that pool of experience to extrapolate from - and AI info can 'fast track' their understanding of gas consumption versus dive parameters.

However, for those involved in (or considering) technical diving - there's no substitute for manually recording, calculating and tracking their SAC/RMV. This is an assessed skill/requirement on every dive of every technical diving course.

 

[Nuribromanski]

Surely AI can further that by taking into consideration your actual gas consumption in real time so allowing refinement of the algorithms further?

what do u think gas consumption has 2 do w/ deco algo??

 

[drrich2]

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Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[DevonDiver]

Others have stated some very well stated needs for the activity they want to do (they want to maintain a grip of their camera or fish without having to juggle and unclip an SPG which means they need a solution that keeps the information in their line of sight).

My heart bleeds..... as I set out to traverse the pitch-dark engine rooms of an armored cruiser, whilst laying line, videoing students and maneuvering 3+ cylinders through areas where you couldn't swing a stunted ferret....

Not checking gas is a matter of situational awareness. Maybe a bit of foresight and forward planning.

Using an SPG is a matter of muscle memory development and ingrained, habitual task performance.

AI prevents you having to develop those instinctive, intuitive skills.... and compensates for low situational awareness. It's nice quick fix. It doesn't aid development though... and neither does it make you a safer, more competent or aware diver.

The way I interpret some of these 'benefits' seems to amount to "my situational awareness is easily degraded, I can use technology to compensate for this inherent weakness in my diving skillset".

 

[undrwater]

Andy, I've already agreed that for your kind of diving, it doesn't make sense. When was the last time you went hunting for big fish? When was the last time you did videography to put food on your table? When was the last time you went diving to look at the fishies?

Perhaps shearwater intends their devices to be used in the kinds of dives you do. If that's the case, I hope a manufacturer comes along with the same attitude of openness and quality to provide a product the rest of us can love.

 

[KenGordon]

what do u think gas consumption has 2 do w/ deco algo??

Gas consumption, like heart rate, may reflect the work being done by the diver. That is quite important to the gas load. It is either ignored or assumed by deco algorithms depending on how you look at it. If the profiles were tested against divers doing work at depth then you might infer it is assumed. This is lucky really as some of these algorithms aim at a 2% probability of a bend. That would have been an expectation of one bent diver each day on my most recent liveaboard.

 

[Diving Dubai]

The only way I foresee AI maturing much more on the "algorithm" front is if a tech computer has (or adds) AI and starts letting the diver configure their cylinder sizes into the computer along with the gas blends.

My AI computer already does this.



---------- Post added January 13th, 2016 at 04:27 PM ----------

Gas consumption, like heart rate, may reflect the work being done by the diver. That is quite important to the gas load. It is either ignored or assumed by deco algorithms depending on how you look at it.

That's exactly what I was getting at. The Galileo Sol comes with a heart rate monitor as well as AI apparently, however I wondered if Gas consumption over time could help refine the algorithms with regard to workload/fitness