Should SB be required reading in OW classes?

[diver 85]

I think my LDS is the bomb! Anything I've ever wanted that they didn't have was ordered in for me.

I can beat that.....My LDS is some(maybe a couple) 1-800 numbers.......Don't believe they've EVER had to order anything, ie always in stock.....

 

[lowviz]

You who advocate making it mandatory (or suggested or whatever) for OW students to read a forum like SB don't seem to believe that most OW students are not like you. ...//...

Or maybe that is the whole point. Or maybe not. I find this thread a most interesting minefield.

BTW, I disagree with "it's mostly not people like you". I believe that the original premise is, that it is...

 

[drrich2]

Following up an earlier post by Lorenzoid, yes, it's often helpful to have a stream-lined OW class with a set way of doing things that students can accept and have some faith in at face value, without fear, uncertainty and doubt interrupting the process. Let's take an OW class of 4 who got into ScubaBoard before OW dives, having purchased gear packages, and now they're worried they got the wrong stuff or were made fools of because:

1.) That snorkel the agency required for your class? Stupid! Get rid of it ASAP.

2.) Oh, you got a Jacket BCD? You'll have trouble with horizontal trim and eventually spend hundreds more on a BP/W.

3.) Those split fins stir up too much turbulence and can damage the reef, and aren't as good for frog kicking & back kicking, and are what the ignorant noobs get. Oh, you have a pair? Ah, well... (Disclaimer: I dive splits).

4.) That console computer you got? You'd have liked a wrist unit better.

5.) Air-integrated sure is nice.

6.) Air-integrated is a stupid gimmick.

7.) You're going to hate how that Suunto cuts your dive time short.

8.) If your instructor weren't lazy he'd have taught you tables.

9.) If your instructor taught you on your knees in the pool, he wasn't doing a very good job.

10.) If you didn't get rescue skills in the basic OW course, your agency requirements were inadequate and you're a lousy buddy.

11.) If you aren't ready for independent navigation in the ocean off a dive boat with no guide, you shouldn't have been issued a C-card.

12.) If you didn't solidly MASTER, rather than just manage to eventually perform, every skill, you're not competent yet, you shouldn't have a C-card and you ought to report your instructor to your agency's quality control department.

13.) If you only go on guided tropical dives you're a vacation poser, not a real diver.

14.) If you mainly rely on your dive computer you're apt to get bent. Vs. the tables you won't remember, that nobody else you know dives with or will put up with the over-conservative profiles of.

15.) Your agency is just in it for the money, watered down your training to the point you won't even be competent, your instructor is under pressure to barely train you and hope you pay for more rip off courses, and you're liable to get killed on an actual ocean dive.

There's more, but imagine all this running through the minds of a typical mainstream OW class as the instructor tries to conduct training...

Richard.

 

[lowviz]

Richard,

Either somewhat unbecoming of you, or you are just ramming home the OP's point. I'm maxed out. Too many levels of indirection...

-Dennis

 

[drrich2]

I'm making the point that some forum discussions could undermine student confidence in their course, and thus the degree to which they commit to it. Not claiming these as my positions. They are, however, views a newcomer can run across, creating fear, uncertainty and doubt.

 

[Tigerman]

I'm making the point that some forum discussions could undermine student confidence in their course, and thus the degree to which they commit to it. Not claiming these as my positions. They are, however, views a newcomer can run across, creating fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Lets be honest, if we had ow students read SB they are views they WILL come across and you'd spend the whole bloody course time discussing virtual diving rather than training actual diving..

 

[Diver0001]

After reading several posts about how few divers read or even know about Scubaboard it got me thinking. I know that I have learned a great deal and have become a much better diver by reading SB. So, should it be required reading for new divers or at least discussed in OW classes?

Required? Absolutely not.

I tell my students about internet forums and I tell them this:

1) It's a vast source of information.
2) Much of the information is subject to groupthink biases that are highly influenced by a small minority who are charismatic, dominant and highly opinionated but not always right.
3) With patience and an open mind, they will learn a lot from it and get to know people who will help them progress as divers.

I would never require them to read it though. I do tell them that *IF* they read it and they read something that conflicts with what I'm telling them in the course that they should bring the questions they have to class so we can discuss it. Especially at the OW level it's important to give students information they can use but it would be massive overload to tell them about every opinion possible about all issues, which is kind of what you get when you read online discussions.

It's important that students are encouraged to use all the resources available to them to learn what they can learn, but I'd like them to have enough of a foundation first that they can identify crap when they see it... or at least not fall prey to point-of-view warriors. Personally, I'd like them to know what the "common" best practices are first so they have some basis of comparison when and if they enter the online debating circus.

R..

 

[lowviz]

I'm making the point that some forum discussions could undermine student confidence in their course, and thus the degree to which they commit to it. Not claiming these as my positions. They are, however, views a newcomer can run across, creating fear, uncertainty and doubt.

I lived in the corporate era of FUD. Understand same.

...//... Not claiming these as my positions. ...//...

Most odd post, then. A disclaimer would have been useful.

My point is that diving is playing with both your life and well-being in the interest of fun. A bit of desanctifying / undermining of the "agencies that be" could be a somewhat good thing, IMHO.

Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt that what you are being fed will keep you perfectly safe...

 

[drrich2]

My point is that diving is playing with both your life and well-being in the interest of fun. A bit of desanctifying / undermining of the "agencies that be" could be a somewhat good thing, IMHO.

I agree. My issue is with timing.

The OW Student: Someone entering an OW class is going to have an awful time trying to figure out who's credible, who's right, how much of an issue is really important and how much an over-valued idea, etc... Calling into question a lot of what he's being taught and the instructor and agency teaching him could interfere with mastering the basic course content.

Recently Certified OW Diver: Still pretty green, but has been taught a basic body of knowledge and skill by an instructor & agency materials through self-study and more. He applied himself to learn because he believed he was being properly taught in a correct manner, and he now knows something about the subject, at an entry level.

Our RCWD comes to ScubaBoard. He quickly realizes some people consider some of his training, instructor's teaching techniques, agency's policies, or his initial gear choices to be suboptimal, if not inadequate, if not 'wrong.'

Which may be true. But at least he did learn the basic knowledge and skills. He can now consider others viewpoints, particularly debates where we test each others positions, consider this in light of his growing personal experience, and in time 'grow into' a better understanding of his deficiencies and how to correct them.

This is not the 'ideal' scenario. That would involved a prospective student heavily researching the subject in advance, carefully screening prospective instructors and course standards, and perhaps traveling to be trained by the exceptionally gifted and rigorous instructors of varied agencies who turn out unusually high quality divers. A student shown jacket vs. BP/W, the benefits of long-hose setups letting you donate the primary,
training in horizontal trim throughout and attention to buddy skills training, etc...

I don't think that's going to happen outside a very small minority of students. So I direct my views to the mainstream.

Richard.

 

[mdax]

Hell no