Should rec divers be able to reach their valve?

[ZoCrowes255]

That should be taught in a basic openwater course as it is part of the standards (for NAUI and SSI at least.) A diver should be able to reach behind them and find their first stage and tank valve in order to find a regulator (or turn their air on.)

 

[MikeFerrara]

Here's my situation, I could never do it. I suppose shifting the tank up might work but otherwise could never reach it. I recently got myself a BP/W (no wing debates here). While trying it on and setting up my regs in my basement I had realized I did not turn the cylinder on. Thinking, oh cr_p, I reached over and could suprisingly reach it. Regardless of what an OW diver should be able to do, I think some gear makes it too difficult to do it.

Gear can effect your ability in lots of ways...tank positioning, wet or dry suit fit and some wings/bc's put air bladder between the diver and the tank causing the tank to move further from the diver when there is air in the bc.

The next biggest factor of course is technique. I've seen many divers who swear they can't reach because of a lack of flexability but once they learn the right way to do it they all can.


I decided to learn to reach my valves one day at about 20 ft, alone and with my air off. LOL. The folks I was diving with droped and scooted before I was ready. In my hast to catchup I managed to descend without realizing that my air wasn't on. I could have made it to the surface but I didn't want to. I reached back (my first try ever) and I couldn't reach it. I tried scooting the tank up but I still couldn't reach so I poped the cumberbun loose and jacked the the tank up and got my air turned back on.

So...yes you shouldn't go diving with your air turned off but at the same time it shouldn't matter much either. IMO, no one should be in the water PERIOD if they can't get to their valve...there are too many ways it can get turned off or left off. It may not happen often but when it does happen it shouldn't present even a little bit of risk because it's completely unnecessary risk and therefor unacceptable. Seems a no-brainer to me.

 

[DallasNewbie]

Uncontrollable freeflow? Some can only be stopped by turning off and letting the valve thaw. Argue buddy can do it? Well the time taken for a buddy to realise, signal and close it lots of air is wasted. What if it happens after buddy separation? Nobody there to help then.

If I have a freeflow and my buddy isn't around, I certainly won't be shutting off my air. Most OW divers don't carry their own independant air supply.

That said, I can't imagine a person not being able to reach the valve unless their arms were broken.

 

[String]

Independent air is certainly not reserved for tech diving - a lot/most rec divers tend to carry it these days for good reason. Even if a buddy is there its often quicker to DIY than wait and communicate saving air and potentially the dive.

 

[RonFrank]

1. If you follow proper procedures you will never jump in the water with your tank valve shut. This is what everyone is taught in basic training.

2. Nobody who is properly trained will ever shut your valve off without your knowing it as you are getting ready to jump in.

3. If you are dumb enough to jump in the water with your valve shut off you ought to die anyways.

4. If you associate with people dumb enough to shut your valve off without you knowing it you ought to die anyways.

5. Millions of dives are performed by divers who cannot reach their valves, so obviously it is not a "necessary" skill, but just some fancy-pants show off stunt GUE divers dreamed up to make themselves feel superior.

So, I think you can see that there is no legitimate reason to train OW divers to reach their valves.

Well, I jumped (or walked) into the water with my air off just last Sunday. Why?

I was dumb enough to ask a DM in training to *check* my air (I was rather sure I had turned it on, but not 100% sure), he did so, and turned it OFF!

So I followed *proper* proceedures, and ended up in the water with my air turned off....

I apparently am DUMB enough to get into the water with my air turned off, AND associate with people who are DUMB enough to shut off my air when I asked for them to turn it on!!!

I guess I'll go kill myself.... or wait!! I was smart enough to have a full BCD when I got in, and smart enough to do a good air check before I started decending which is when I realized my air was off..... I THEN had a nearby diver turn it on.

In hindsight, I should have turned in on myseft, but I had a buddy 2 feet away.

I think reaching the air valve is a good skill. So learn this very basic of skills -or- die... hmmmm I maybe too dumb to make this choice.

 

[diverbrian]

If I have a freeflow and my buddy isn't around, I certainly won't be shutting off my air. Most OW divers don't carry their own independant air supply.

That said, I can't imagine a person not being able to reach the valve unless their arms were broken.

You should see our Advanced Nitrox students then. In doubles and tech gear and some still don't have the flexibility to reach back there until the last few of dives of the course. The reasoning that I always hear is flexibility to reach the valves, but at least in that course it is a REQUIRED skill, so the students learn.

But then I am spoiled. I have been known to zip/unzip my backzip drysuit on my own. Reaching valves behind me is pretty instinctive. I still have problems doing it if I have an AL80 and recreational gear though.

 

[diverbrian]

Independent air is certainly not reserved for tech diving - a lot/most rec divers tend to carry it these days for good reason. Even if a buddy is there its often quicker to DIY than wait and communicate saving air and potentially the dive.

This is another issue, but my feel on this (after seeing a more than a couple of divers untrained in rigging a pony have issues with reaching the rest of their gear, entanglement issues, improper gas management..... ) is that it is a good idea for a person carrying a pony bottle to take some sort of advanced training or mentoring to figure the optimum way to carry it and the appropriate use of it.

 

[Stirling]

Bob (Grateful Diver): "Sad to say ... we had one of those here a couple years ago. The fellow died with a full tank of air, a 45-lb weightbelt wrapped around his waist, and a "buddy" who didn't even know what happened till he completed his dive."

And I think that illustrates that it isn't just a matter of mastering the skill that will get you out of a jam - who doesn't know how to unfasten a weightbelt? It is even easier than releasing a car seatbelt, which we all know how to do and have practiced thousands of times. The real skill is mastering the urge to panic while you solve the problem, and remember that dumping your weight may be part of the solution.

I keep reading of SCUBA deaths where the diver never dropped their weights, in circumstances when it is apparent that they would have been much better off risking a fast ascent than dying on the bottom. I can't believe that they didn't know how to dump their weight; the question is why they didn't remember to do it when the time came. The diver Bob mentioned certainly knew how to do that, and may very well have known *how* to reach the valve and turn it on, too, even with 45 pounds (!) of weight around him. But he didn't do either one when it mattered.

 

[String]

is that it is a good idea for a person carrying a pony bottle to take some sort of advanced training or mentoring to figure the optimum way to carry it and the appropriate use of it.

Mounting a pony bottle is hardly rocket science whether its side sling it attached to the main tank. Theres no way that needs any additional training.

 

[diverbrian]

Mounting a pony bottle is hardly rocket science whether its side sling it attached to the main tank. Theres no way that needs any additional training.

It shouldn't be, but...

I have watched divers not able to reach their BC hoses because the @#$! pony that they just started using got in the way. We won't mention the mushroom cloud that they made when they hit bottom.

I have seen stuff get tangled and divers grab the wrong reg. or not know that you need to be able to &*^! valve because maybe your reg will freeze open and drain that bail-out bottle that they were counting on instead of PROPER GAS MANAGEMENT and discipline of turning the dive when they hit a pre-calculated turn pressure.

I didn't say a class, but at least an experienced diver that knows some of the ropes and is willing to dive with the new pony bottle user.

People seem to underestimate how an apparently small change in rigging can lead to problems underwater.