should Loran be shut down?

[Chuck Tribolet]

If the USA is in a situation where some other power knocked out the GPS
constellation. I suspect I'd have far bigger worries than dropping the hook
right on the dive site.

Chuck

 

[mike_s]

huge ones.

ATM machines would have problems.
package delivery trucks would have problems (they are all GPS routed).
your cell phone would have problems, towers get their time sync from GPS
anything that needs synchronized time across a network would have issues, including internet routers.
huge impact on military equipment.
internet banking issues.


GPS is really used for a lot more than just "find the nearest gas station".

 

[Rainer]

GPS is really used for a lot more than just "find the nearest gas station".

Exactly. So it stands to reason that if any other country decides to take out our GPS satellites (and yes, there are many, with significant overlap), somebody is getting nuked (badly). At that point, GPS is going to be far from the minds of most citizens.

 

[H2O 70]

p)However, what happens if GPS becomes disabled?

If GPS becomes disabled, I think we have a bigger problem than navigating in our boats.

If they turn SA off, we'll then were back to GPS unit that have an accuracy of +/-500ft vs. +/-10ft.

If that happens boats are going to have to go back to, or learn, how to navigate the way it was done before we had GPS.

In the meantime you could get a Soviet receiver (GPS) and use their satellites.

 

[adurso]

I used a map and compass before LORAN, during LORAN, and still do even though I have a GPS on everything under the sun....

Shut down LORAN and save some money...

 

[Nemrod]

Some years ago, GPS did go down, at least with some units, I think it was Aug. 22, 1999. I was en route in less than quality viz. I had left an airport and having been lulled into believing in GPS had just figured I would set in my route once clear of the airport traffic, I was VFR. Well, I flipped the GPS on about 30 minutes into the flight and there was nothing there. But, I knew about where I was, knew there was an interstate cutting across my route, hit the highway, turned to the east to confirm Salina, KS to be where it should be and then turned west and went IFR (I Follow Roads) into Denver area, took a right at the Rockies, piece of cake.

GPS Week Number Rollover Issues

You should always have backup nav capability, map and compass and dead reckoning is a skill all boaters and pilots should be proficient at. I have learned over the years as a private pilot, there are a couple of landmarks that are hard to miss and have been useful, lol, the Mississippi River and the Rocky Mountains, I tend to be able to pick those out as I bounce around between them. In fact, I was once queried by a FSS as to my position, my reply was, "well, uh, somewhere west of the Mississippi and east of the Rockies" and their answer, after a moment of silence was, "when you can be more specific, get back with us" so that was kinda funny.

N

 

[grouchyturtle]

Paper charts, compass, depth finder, day markers, land marks, etc. I'm a newbie, and even I have to ask if you're not going WAY off-shore, crossing an ocean, etc. is it REALLY that hard?

As far as the other things that depend on GPS...

I think a better question is, how likely is it that someone really would try to attack it/shut it down? Is this a real life danger, or yet another irrational fear fueled by the media, over sensationalizing, etc?

There's a great thread on cruisers forum right now that talks about fear. Specifically how there are so many fake fears. Things that don't have any real or at least significant risk, but are just jammed down our throats by government, news, movies, etc. And how being out cruising you're not afraid of any of these things because you have real fears to deal with and also because of being detached from the media and simply not hearing about all the fake fears.

 

[drdaddy]

They called it dead reckoning because if you didn't reckon right you got lost at sea and died

My Daddy's not dead yet. My US Navy Pilot/Navigator (all US Navy Pilots were trained in Navigation then) WWII Veteran (South Pacific) Father's "dead reckoning" was more than just a "guess".

One of my proudest moments (and there were more than one) was, as a little boy, when our family was out at sea, fishing for salmon, and the fog rolled in on the recreational "fleet". My Daddy led the entire group in through mouth and into the channel - we had the charter and recreational boats all lined up behind us! Asking my Dad how he did it, he told me how he had seen the weather changing, calculated the current, wind, and took a heading (into a Port that he knew very well) and started moving.

Years later my Loran sits idly in a box somewhere, and I'm spoiled by GPS and RADAR and SONAR. If GPS gets temporarily shut down, I'll navigate by how I was taught by my Father, with the advantage of being able to "read" exactly where I am by the RADAR (confirmed by Charts and SONAR - don't have to throw the line overboard and read Fathoms - "mark twain" for you "riverboaters wantabees").

However, if GPS is really shut down, none of us will be going sport fishing, I think we'd better take a combination my childhood schoolroom advice and sarcastic college sophomoric advice of:
"crawling under our desk" and "putting our head between our legs and kissing our *** goodbye".

 

[Chuck Tribolet]

If they turn SA off, we'll then were back to GPS unit that have an accuracy of +/-500ft vs. +/-10ft.

You got it backwards: SA (Selective Availabilty) reduces the accuracy and has been
off since 2000. And even when it was on, a differential receiver (I had one) would
correct the position to about 45 feet. And today, WAAS transmits differential
corrections for geosynchronous satellites, so you don't even need the differential
receiver.

 

[james croft]

Next thing you know I will find out I can't use my astrolab anymore...

My dad was a mustang navy man who saw service in WW2, Korea and with the brown water navy in Viet Nam. I was going through some of his personnel papers from the navy from the early 60's and one form asked him to list his qualifications for command. The form had numerous blank pages for him to list them. He wrote one sentence:

"Navigate any ship, on any ocean, at any time."

GPS was not around then either.