Should I buy a pony bottle?

[Pullmyfinger]

Another viewpoint on a pony bottle:

Quote from PeronneFord, one of my favorite posters:

"A pony bottle is not a buddy. It cannot think. It cannot remind you to check your gas supply. It cannot tell you that you are too deep or breathing too fast. It cannot extricate you from fishing line, and it can't tell you not to do that swim-through because you'll get your fin caught and breathe down all your gas supply. A pony bottle has dubious purpose. IF your diving requires you to carry a larger gas supply, then you need a larger tank. IF your diving requires that you need redundancy because of the inherent danger of the dive, then use doubles.

The problem I see with most newer divers such as yourself is that you are discovering what most new divers discover shortly after OW class. And that is, the fallacy that "everything is always going to be ok". This is the impression OW class is designed to leave you with. On the opposite end of the spectrum, technical diving instructs that NOTHING will be OK, and we must plan for everything to fail. The truth lies somewhere in between.

So now you're doing dives and you realize, wow, what would happen if I got separated from my buddy and I needed air? I need a pony bottle. Or what would happen if I had a free-flow I couldn't stop it and I can't get to my buddy? I need a pony bottle. What happens if I don't pay attention and I run out of air? I need a pony bottle. No. You don't. What you need to do is to increase your diving skill and awareness so that you NEVER become separated from your buddy, and you NEVER become so inattentive to your depth and time, you breathe more gas than you should. And those two things won't cost you a dime.

Suppose, for instance that you actually learn how much air your breathe on the surface, and had a formula that told you how much you would consume at 60ft. And let's say that you learn that with your breathing rate, you knew you had 60 minutes at 60ft. And so did your buddy. If you both went to 60 ft and you cut off your tank, and shared with your buddy, you'd both have 30 minutes worth of air to breathe for an ascent. Plenty, with no pony bottle. Let's say you both went to 60ft did a dive of 30 minutes, and you shut off your tank. Now you share, and you both have 15 minutes worth of air to ascend. Plenty enough to deal with a catastrophic failure of either of your tanks, ascend normally, do a safety stop, etc. No pony bottle needed. But what happened was that your hour long dive now has to be 30 minutes long to have that kind of safety margin. So what happens if you both dive larger tanks? Well the time gets increased a bit, and you can stay longer with the same safety margin.

Suppose you increase your diving skill so that you and your buddy can always dive within arms distance of each other, even in zero vis? If you both had this level of skill, then losing your buddy would no longer be a reason to worry about carrying a redundant tank. Combine this with planning ahead so that you start your ascent with plenty of air in case something goes wrong, and you eliminate the need for the pony bottle altogether.

So what happens when you really DO want to stay for an hour, AND have the safety margin? You transition to doubles. That is why you see many technical divers move to doubles and never move back. It's not that the dives they are doing are always penetration dives, or very hard dives. It's that doubles offer a vast safety margin that allow them to deal with many underwater problems without stress or worry. I don't do dives below 70ft or so any more without doubles and a solid buddy. Just not worth the risk.

In my view, you should be working far harder on increasing your diving skill, including learning to plan your dives with adequate safety reserves, and you should be spending far less time worrying about what you can buy to mitigate the lack of those skills.

That's just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth."

The link to the thread:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/233033-pony-taboo-2.html#post3548812

Just something to consider, while deciding if a pony bottle is for you.

-Mitch

 

[rhwestfall]

The philosophy of that last post is what it is all about (though I still carry a 19 pony because: I CHOSE TO, belts and suspenders for the above.....)

 

[Teller]

Unless you plan on using the 40 for bailout, why not try sidemount and see if you like it? You can sidemount 80's anywhere in the world. If you decide to go tech you'll have doubles on your back and be sidemounting anyways whether you are OC or CCR.

For overhead on a single you'll need at minum an h-valve and bailout.. so in the end if you really want a bailout secondary go sidemount or get a 40cf at the smallest so you can use it for something besides drysuit inflation IMO.

I agree. This could be a great option for you.

 

[mathauck0814]

I went with a 30 cu ft tank. I look at it as a backup, bailout and added gas option. I side sling it like a stage bottle and have it filled with 32% nitrox. I will take my back tank (117 cu ft) down to about 600-800 psi and then switch to my pony/backup. This leaves me about 20 cu ft in reserve. Usually by this time I am at less then 50 ft and nearing the end of the dive. I figure a little extra O2 during the safety stop can't hurt. The one thing I will recommend is put a quality first and second on your pony. I picked up a great deal on a lightly used Hog D1/CWD kit first and second and gotta say that my next regs will more than likely come from Jim Lapenta here on the board. That Hog is like "OMG" Sweet breathing.

You're no longer talking about a pony. At the point where you're including the second tank in your planning it's not a redundant air supply, it's part of the dive plan.

 

[idive2]

I bought and sold my 6cf pony. I bought and gave away my 13cf. I have now and will keep my
30cf. I would start with a 19cf for recreational stuff but if going deeper more regularly a 30cf or
40cf or more would be in order.

 

[rhwestfall]

Matt:

The best thing I can offer to you is to get some experience under your belt with the training you have. You appear to be aware of the issues. Put that to use. Plan a dive, dive a plan. If your buddy doesn't do what you have agreed to, DIVE OVER. Find another one for the next dive. Statistically, it isn't likely to happen, and if you have trained and practiced, you can handle it. Dive smart.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I went with a 30 cu ft tank. I look at it as a backup, bailout and added gas option. I side sling it like a stage bottle and have it filled with 32% nitrox. I will take my back tank (117 cu ft) down to about 600-800 psi and then switch to my pony/backup. This leaves me about 20 cu ft in reserve. Usually by this time I am at less then 50 ft and nearing the end of the dive. I figure a little extra O2 during the safety stop can't hurt. The one thing I will recommend is put a quality first and second on your pony. I picked up a great deal on a lightly used Hog D1/CWD kit first and second and gotta say that my next regs will more than likely come from Jim Lapenta here on the board. That Hog is like "OMG" Sweet breathing.

I think your approach might be a little beyond what the OP is trying to do.

 

[ajtoady]

I think your approach might be a little beyond what the OP is trying to do.

I am just showing him other options and gear configurations. I did a lot of research and reading before I went with this set up. I feel that you chose what suits you best for your diving safety and enjoyment or if you prefer your mission. If a pony gives him peace of mind, then get a pony. I am not going to say whether that pony should be 6, 13, 19 or whatever cu ft. That is his choice and he needs to do his own homework on that. This is my opinion or $.05.
$.05 instead of $.02 due to inflation

 

[fjpatrum]

First, most of the issues resulting in death I've read about have been health related, not OOA situations.

Without reading all the replies yet, I'm wondering exactly why you think it needs to be "a fairly large" bottle. A pony of nearly any size should be able to get you to the surface safely from recreational depths. Even a 19 should be able to get you to the surface if you aren't dealing with a deco obligation.

That said, if you're concerned about OOA scenarios, I'd say it's probably a good idea for you. Get some training on how to use the pony bottle and be careful.

 

[FPDocMatt]

Suppose you increase your diving skill so that you and your buddy can always dive within arms distance of each other, even in zero vis? If you both had this level of skill, then losing your buddy would no longer be a reason to worry about carrying a redundant tank.

So you seem to be saying that staying a short distance from my buddy is a skill like any other skill. That's actually reassuring. I've just seen a lot of posts by experienced divers about diving with stranger buddies who basically deserted them. But hey, being close to my buddy will absolutely eliminate this danger that I was hoping to eliminate by the use of the pony bottle. So I'm happy to go with your solution. And I'm quite okay with having a little talk with a stranger buddy about expectations, and I think I can do it without alienating the person.

By the way, people talk about a failed first stage being extremely rare. But what about all these deaths by experienced divers where we don't know what went wrong? And of such deaths there are many, based on the little bit of reading I've done. What could cause an experienced diver to perish? Certainly, a failed first stage could do it. It's one thing to run out of air, switch to your alternate air source, etc. But it's another thing to find yourself sucking in sea water, start choking, and every time you choke you breathe in more sea water, etc. So it may be that a failed first stage is extremely rare. Or it may be that it's not so rare, but we don't hear about it because survival of such a malfunction is rare.