Should have known better

[Kharon]

In my opinion you didn't do fine, you were as poor a dive buddy as they were as you simply left them instead of signalling them to end the dive and ascend as a group when you ran low on air. You were solo diving and obviously will continue to do so if you are never going to have pre-dive discussions with your buddy about the dive plan, how the dive will end, lost buddy procedures, etc...




This is spot on.

What makes you think I didn't let them know I was breaking off. I did and they continued on their way. Maybe I should have stayed with them and drowned?

And we did have a full pre-dive discussion. You obviously don't read posts before you blow smoke out yer arse.

---------- Post added October 2nd, 2014 at 09:33 AM ----------

... but there is still so excuse to enter the water as a three man team and not exit the water as a three man team (and I am sure the OP fully understands that now).

If the other two refuse to exit that's somehow my fault. Bushwah.

---------- Post added October 2nd, 2014 at 09:35 AM ----------

Knowing the dive areas, you could have signaled to end dive and headed due east . You would have done a safety stop on the swim in and would not have exposed yourself to boat to the head. At least deploy a smb, there are a few old time fisherman that boat between buoys and shore. There is no law against it . 500 psi is plenty to get in, even from the wall edge. I would also add,drag a dive flag if deep water ascents to surface are planned, it lets the boaters know you are there. We aren't the only one using thethe water. The flag at shore isn't good enough. Cheers

What - there was no boat involved. It was a shore dive.

---------- Post added October 2nd, 2014 at 09:37 AM ----------

In addition, I'd say that somebody who isn't comfortable with direct ascents needs to do more of them. And I say that as someone who rather loathes them and tends to avoid them -- so I have to discipline myself to go do them from time to time, so as not to lose facility.

Said I hate them not that I can't do them safely. I can and did.

---------- Post added October 2nd, 2014 at 09:44 AM ----------

So my point. Being a buddy is a lot more than being someone else's gas mule at arm's length. Being an OW buddy should require a class and get you a piece of plastic that actually means something. You can't become a functional buddy by assignment or even by desire. There are things that just have to be taught and drilled in.

Spot on. +1

And by the way, it's he not she - not that it matters.

 

[lowviz]

...//... And by the way, it's he not she - not that it matters.

I'm well aware (I was speaking in general terms) I read your "About Me". That is when I 'liked' your OP, really struck a chord, the background and dive situation could have been me. I normally stay out of these religious discussions but something crystallized for me in this thread:

Way too many of us are being taught to solo dive by example and then getting soundly chastised when we do.

 

[luscioman]

I read this though and saw the comments on others. You stated that you signaled to turn back at 1500. When at 800 you realized they weren't going back I would have either shown them my SPG or signaled 800 psi if I wasn't close enough. A tank banger would have gotten their attention on that.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

I'm well aware (I was speaking in general terms) I read your "About Me". That is when I 'liked' your OP, really struck a chord, the background and dive situation could have been me. I normally stay out of these religious discussions but something crystallized for me in this thread:

Way too many of us are being taught to solo dive by example and then getting soundly chastised when we do.

I think you guys are getting a little dramatic (I guess we all do from time to time, myself included.) This thread has nothing to do with solo diving. It was just a relatively minor buddy separation incident, that could have been avoided.

The OP should have signaled his desire to end the dive more emphatically, and should have signaled again when he realized it wasn't ending fast enough. But it's also not a big deal for one diver to wave bye and head up either. If you aren't comfortable doing that, fine. Say so... Signal the other divers and make them escort you to the surface, or even the shore, if you feel the need. Don't try to make it sound like you were abandoned and almost died because you HAD to break out the pony bottle because this is clearly a case of I only have a hammer so everything look like a nail.

I bet the other two divers are wondering why you're upset because by your accounting you didn't adequately communicate your concerns to them. When someone thumbs the dive, there's nothing wrong with a gentle return. It's your responsibility to communicate if a more urgent return is required. There's a difference between thumbing the dive, and I need to get the hell out, let's go! I'm different here. When someone thumbs, I want know why. I got yelled at in cave class when I did this. The instructor asked me about it after the dive. My answer is I want to know WHY someone is thumbing a planned dive. Is he having a problem or a medical issue? Is it something I need to help with? Do I need to be thinking about an air sharing plan as we swim out, etc. If I thumb a dive I will tell you why whether it's because I'm air limited, tired, cold, etc. If that had been me and the divers wouldn't turn quickly enough, I would have swam past them into the lead position while giving each of them the thumbs up, follow me, low air and exit signals with one hand while waving my pressure gauge with the other.

The worst part about this thread is that a month from now someone will refer back the this thread saying, "See, See, his buddies abandoned him and the pony bottle saved his life!"

 

[lowviz]

I think you guys are getting a little dramatic

I can't speak for the others, but I'm pretty sure that I am.

Just trying to make a point. I doubt that there was any functional buddy pair on the dive as described. Just people sort of following each other, just as they were 'taught'. You did the out of air sprint in your cave class, what is the chance that any of them would be able to do anything other than an emergency ascent in an OOA situation? My PSD training made a huge deal about becoming self-compromised underwater.

It was just a relatively minor buddy separation incident, that could have been avoided.

Well, yeah, if anyone cared enough to avoid it.

The OP should have signaled his desire to end the dive more emphatically, and should have signaled again when he realized it wasn't ending fast enough.

Agreed, no drama, just make sure you are understood and make your exit.

When someone thumbs, I want know why. I got yelled at in cave class when I did this. The instructor asked me about it after the dive. My answer is I want to know WHY someone is thumbing a planned dive. Is he having a problem or a medical issue? Is it something I need to help with? Do I need to be thinking about an air sharing plan as we swim out, etc. If I thumb a dive I will to you why whether it's because I'm air limited, tired, cold, etc. If that had been me and the divers wouldn't turn quickly enough, I would have swam past them into the lead position while giving each of them the thumbs up, follow me, low air and exit signals with one hand while waving my pressure gauge with the other.

I'll bet that explanation went over really well with the instructor.

Here is where we fundamentally differ. I read everything that I could get on cave diving before heading off to take my course. (-not to say that you didn't also) Bought anything I could get from Exley. He started the change in cave diving mentality. Read the yearly reports of cave deaths. That is just about where I started taking cave diving procedure as a leap of faith. There is nothing that hasn't been examined in infinite detail by the very best cave divers. Best practices are in place to avoid it happening again. It is dynamic, cave procedure changes with growing experience. I don't dive caves regularly and there is absolutely NOTHING that I can add or improve. Here, I only question for insight. I want to know the proper procedure and I'll blindly follow it like my and my buddy's lives depended on it.

...//... The [-]worst[/-] <Best> part about this thread is that a month from now someone will refer back the this thread saying, "See, See, his buddies abandoned him and the pony bottle saved his life!"

C'mon, this IS ScubaBoard. Don't be a party pooper.

 

[Mike]

What makes you think I didn't let them know I was breaking off. I did and they continued on their way. Maybe I should have stayed with them and drowned?

And we did have a full pre-dive discussion. You obviously don't read posts before you blow smoke out yer arse.

Nobody can read your mind, only what you write.

Someone blatantly ignoring you is a pretty important point in a discussion about having to break contact with a buddy and ascend solo, to leave it out either means you don't comprehend the importance of it or it didn't actually happen.

Add that to the history of your threads about your dive trip to Grand Cayman here and elsewhere over and over again complaining about how everyone basically ruined your trip indicated you like to complain a lot but don't do anything proactively to reduce your issues you inevitably seem to always end up having and always end up becoming a victim.

So you might want to include important information in your posts or not get upset if people can't read your mind.

For listing yourself as a 'fish' for your dive count, you certainly seem to have a lot of issues that normally are associated with newbie divers, not people with large amounts of experience. The whole switching to a pony at 25 feet with 500psi I gave you a pass on, but it certainly again is indicative to someone over-reacting, overly dramatic, or someone with way less dive experience then you claim to have.

Me thinks there is more to your stories than you let on...

 

[redacted]

What makes you think I didn't let them know I was breaking off. I did and they continued on their way. Maybe I should have stayed with them and drowned?.

With about 30 cu ft of gas between your primary and your pony, you were not under any drowning threat due to OOA. But if you want to end the dive, that is your call.

But I still do not understand why you chose to switch to your pony and do an open water ascent. If you know the direction to your exit point, you could just as well have ascended to about 20 feet and completed a rest stop on your back gas as you continued to move to your exit point as you enjoyed the end of the dive.

 

[vincent54]

Originally Posted by vincent54
Knowing the dive areas, you could have signaled to end dive and headed due east . You would have done a safety stop on the swim in and would not have exposed yourself to boat to the head. At least deploy a smb, there are a few old time fisherman that boat between buoys and shore. There is no law against it . 500 psi is plenty to get in, even from the wall edge. I would also add,drag a dive flag if deep water ascents to surface are planned, it lets the boaters know you are there. We aren't the only one using thethe water. The flag at shore isn't good enough. Cheers



What - there was no boat involved. It was a shore dive.

There are boats (fishing, pleasure)that travel between the buoys and shore. Shore dives require a dive flag, and the very least a SMB if you are going to ascend where boats may be present. It is luck that no boats came through. Even though you were at a known site, the locals aren't always looking for divers. I wasn't saying you don't know how to ascend, I'm just adding you should let people topside know you are coming up. I have no problem with the way you handled the dive, but surface markers are a basic when diving.

 

[Kharon]

There are boats (fishing, pleasure)that travel between the buoys and shore. Shore dives require a dive flag, and the very least a SMB if you are going to ascend where boats may be present.

I have yet to see a dive flag used anywhere on any Caribbean island. The possible exception might be in boat channels or harbors, which are almost never dived - the Bonaire harbor comes to mind. Even divers at the salt pier and oil loading dock don't use a flag. Moreover, there was no chance that a boat was going to be present anywhere near where I surfaced. Even if there had been a boat present I would have seen it on my way up, and if it was running a motor, heard it. I either case I would have had my SMB ready and had my hand on the Dive Alert and stayed under till I hit the shore wall.

 

[vincent54]

I can't say what the laws in Bonaire. In Cayman, it is a law just as it is in the US. As a matter of fact, the DOE boat patrols the area between the buoys and shore on the North side of Brac . Typically at full speed, which is about 25 knots. There is always a chance a boat will use the dive areas.

I use a flag all the time, the dive boats use flags and anyone else diving from shore in Cayman should as well. Listening for a boat and dropping to depth, if your buoyant on the surface, to avoid a boat is poor planning. You will not have time to get clear of a boat going full speed. Use a flag at least to let everyone know your there.

With more divers and boats in the water it is a matter of time before an accident will occur. Cheers