Should AOW be taught simultaneously with OW?

[RichLockyer]

jeremyrfoster once bubbled...
The question is not whether or not it is allowed by PADI; they definitely do allow this to happen. The question is whether or not a wise instructor will pursue/allow this route.

Actually, it is not within standards to do this and I'll bet that if you contact PADI directly they would be interested in speaking to your instructor.

AOW requires a total of 5 dives... Deep (60ft+), Navigation, and three "elective" dives.

PADI standards do not allow more than three dives in one day.
The PRErequisite (not COrequisite) for AOW is to be a certified OW diver, therefore, if you have already completed all of the basic skills and only need one more dive to complete OW, you have only two dives left that you can make on that day.

Only a few of the specialties are allowed to be combined, and AFAIK, none may be combined for AOW, so you are looking at a minimum of 2 days of diving. AOW also has classroom requirements.


YES, the skills and experience taught in AOW should be imparted to the students at the OW level, but the AOW cert should not (and "legally" can't) be issued at the same time as the OW cert.
A basic OW diver with 5 more dives under their belt does NOT equal an "Advanced" open water diver.

 

[MikeFerrara]

RichLockyer once bubbled...

Actually, it is not within standards to do this and I'll bet that if you contact PADI directly they would be interested in speaking to your instructor.

AOW requires a total of 5 dives... Deep (60ft+), Navigation, and three "elective" dives.

PADI standards do not allow more than three dives in one day.
The PRErequisite (not COrequisite) for AOW is to be a certified OW diver, therefore, if you have already completed all of the basic skills and only need one more dive to complete OW, you have only two dives left that you can make on that day.

Only a few of the specialties are allowed to be combined, and AFAIK, none may be combined for AOW, so you are looking at a minimum of 2 days of diving. AOW also has classroom requirements.


YES, the skills and experience taught in AOW should be imparted to the students at the OW level, but the AOW cert should not (and "legally" can't) be issued at the same time as the OW cert.
A basic OW diver with 5 more dives under their belt does NOT equal an "Advanced" open water diver.

PADI, allows and in fact encourages starting the advanced class the very day OW is completed. That's one of the reasons they decided to allow 3 training dives in a day I believe. You are correct though that OW must be completed prior to beginning AOW.

 

[RichLockyer]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
PADI, allows and in fact encourages starting the advanced class the very day OW is completed. That's one of the reasons they decided to allow 3 training dives in a day I believe. You are correct though that OW must be completed prior to beginning AOW.

Oh, absolutely. When 50% (or is it 70%?) of OW graduates stop diving after 6 months, the best way to get the most out of them is to keep them in classes while they ARE still diving.

OTOH, the best way to encourage a diver to continue is to offer good continuing education.

Just giving PADI the benefit of the doubt

 

[MikeFerrara]

RichLockyer once bubbled...

Oh, absolutely. When 50% (or is it 70%?) of OW graduates stop diving after 6 months, the best way to get the most out of them is to keep them in classes while they ARE still diving.

OTOH, the best way to encourage a diver to continue is to offer good continuing education.

Just giving PADI the benefit of the doubt

You do realize that I was just stating a fact and not my opinion of course?

 

[RichLockyer]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
You do realize that I was just stating a fact and not my opinion of course?

Yup.

 

[Windwalker]

I believe the class should be offered based on the instructors confidence in the student. with that said...

In SSI, there is no "Advanced Open Water Course" per se.. How it is handled is, You must have taken 4 specialty courses and have 25 dives. Then the "student" is awarded an "Advanced open water Card" I like this approach to Advanced open water.

However;
Elseware on the board I hear of SSI students needing to take an AOW course (ala Genesis) according to SSIs' website, there is no "Specialized" AOW course, unless the instructor invents it (which is allowed)
http://www.ssiusa.com/coned.htm

 

[Charlie99]

jeremyrfoster once bubbled...
While taking OW, I was offered the chance to finish my AOW at the same time (on the same open water trip). I accepted. Some forum users feel that it is not wise to receive this training all at once, but rather to have a healthy period of time before taking AOW to let OW skills "set in".

So let's hear what you think. Should these certs be offered at the same time?

I've heard what the other people posting think. What do YOU think?. How did it work out? If you had a chance to do it again, would you do it the same way, or would you get a few dives in before taking AOW at the end of the trip?

 

[CBulla]

Windwalker once bubbled...
I believe the class should be offered based on the instructors confidence in the student. with that said...

In SSI, there is no "Advanced Open Water Course" per se.. How it is handled is, You must have taken 4 specialty courses and have 25 dives. Then the "student" is awarded an "Advanced open water Card" I like this approach to Advanced open water.
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This I can agree with whole heartedly. A milestone earned through experience mixed with some training to help round out those experiences, not just the completion of a course.

 

[khel]

Windwalker once bubbled...
I believe the class should be offered based on the instructors confidence in the student. with that said...

Well said! And like many people on the board, I think of it as an "Additional Open Water". If a student feels more or less comfortable in the water and have decent buoyancy skills, then it would only benefit him to take AOW, plus, I think that Navigation dive is a must for everyone right after OW

Btw, out of 8 students in my OW class, I believe, only 2 students (including myself were told that they can take AOW right away IF we wanted.

All the best

khel

 

[RichLockyer]

khel once bubbled...
I think that Navigation dive is a must for everyone right after OW

I agree, however, this begs the question, why is it not a part of OW? The only nav skill taught in OW is to swim a compass course and it's reciprocal. That's not going to be much of a help to the OW student who hops in off of the boat and encounters a current... or doing a shore dive and encounters a current, or some other thing that causes them to lose their bearing.

The fundamentals given in AOW (and that's all they are, the most basic of nav skills) are, IMHO, the bare minimum that a diver should be familiar with.
Not being able to take a new heading based on natural navigation is a heavy liability. Heck... I navigated my way back to the boat using the moon and an island (okay, 300ft tall rock) in my peripheral vision on one particularly memorable surface swim. I wish it hadn't been so memorable


I can certainly understand why most of the specialties are not included in basic OW (jeez, most of the specialties shouldn't even be a class), but, IMHO, nav and "peak performance buoyancy" should be included in the most basic of skills.