Should AOW be taught simultaneously with OW?

[jeremyrfoster]

While taking OW, I was offered the chance to finish my AOW at the same time (on the same open water trip). I accepted. Some forum users feel that it is not wise to receive this training all at once, but rather to have a healthy period of time before taking AOW to let OW skills "set in".

The question is not whether or not it is allowed by PADI; they definitely do allow this to happen. The question is whether or not a wise instructor will pursue/allow this route.

So let's hear what you think. Should these certs be offered at the same time?

 

[MechDiver]

This has been beat to death here, along with everywhere else. If you do a search you'll probably turn up a few hundred posts that settled absolutely nothing.
It makes no difference either way as neither of the classes are worth much anyway.

 

[DennisS]

The voting machine tells me my session is invalid, so I'll just comment. I think the two should be taught together. "Advanced" Open water is marketing, Open Water "Introduction" would be a more realistic title.

 

[Bob3]

Once apon a time all the certification courses contained the info imparted by the so called "OW" and "AOW" courses.
Then the courses started to get dumbed down, split into 2 courses so they could charge you twice.
Ain't marketing grand? :tease:

 

[CBulla]

I'll keep a brief message on this since it does seem to be an old subject. I'm NAUI certified and had an awsome instructor here who really took the time to make sure that everything we did was done right, demonstrated to him and at least one other intstructor.. then we hit the open water in a freshwater lake to take it below the 10' pool level and do it for real. When he said 8 hours classroom and 2 days with dives and review, he wasn't kidding. Not to mention the time spent studying to get the written tests down and he really made sure we knew our dive tables, not just relied on a computer... how? Nobody in the class used a computer until after they recieved their C-card. I had a comment made to me by an operator "Oh, your just open water, you don't understand the dive tables yet," and I was offended, because we had to know how to use them, even carry them with us on a clip incase we "overran" our dive plan and had to know how long to run a decompression stop.

Other things we learned was basic navigation with compass underwater and how to use land marks and basic rescue techniques, including a 25 yard swim with "rescued" buddy. These also had to be demonstrated.

So I'm wondering if thes are differences in requirements for training with the NAUI and PADI basic open water certs? I mean, 8 hours classroom and the 4 dives, I learned a LOT and felt very confident when I hopped off the back of a boat the first time somewhere else. It certainly was not the "learn to dive in a weekend" stuff I see in the dive mags.

 

[CBulla]

Bob3 once bubbled...
Once apon a time all the certification courses contained the info imparted by the so called "OW" and "AOW" courses.
Then the courses started to get dumbed down, split into 2 courses so they could charge you twice.
Ain't marketing grand? :tease:

Sounds like I had an old school instructor. By doing what he did, the class was very enjoyable because I felt challenged and learned things I had not known before. His theory was "your jumping in the water with me and other people who may depend on you, I wouldnt feel very good with myself if something happened to you or a buddy because of a lack of training from me."

 

[jeremyrfoster]

CBulla, I had a similar experience. I had comparable class time and 4 open water dives. I did learn the tables very well including repetetive dives, calculated surface interval, the WXYZ rules, etc. I too felt confident at the end of class with doing this stuff without an instructor... at the same time understanding that I am still very low on experience with lots to learn.

I offer another perspective, however. Some of the people in our class were FAR from confident at the end of OW. One young girl jumped in for her first fun dive after her cert and sank to the bottom of Blue Hole (85') because she forgot about that pesky little buoyancy issue.

That's why I think it depends on the student. If a person is busy mentally trying to figure out how to stay put at the training platform, perhaps they're missing the other skills and not even benefiting from the basic training.

I agree with others that the OW should be called an introduction. It will get a person in the water, but just barely. A veteran diver told me before I started... "get your OW, your AOW, and your Rescue and then we'll talk."

 

[norcaldiver]

They did not split it up so they could charge you twice. Unless every agency got together and did that...yeah, right. I just read a great article in the (i think) Aug 02 issue of DiverTraining Magazine. It goes thru the development of the current training. Starting with OW training being a box pattern..tada, you're certified. Then to 18+hours of classroom heavy on the math, then how education studies showed that less classroom and more hands on was the key. Then broke it up even more for greater concentration of tasks. and on and on. It's a pretty long story, but a real good read.
BOW is a learners permit. I equal it to jump school. You are trained to do a few VERY basic tasks while being scared spitless.
Once you get that down, you can go on to the next class/course.
I actually like SSIs take. AOW is not a class, it's a milemarker in your diving. X number of dives(25 I think), X number of specialties and you're there. I think their Advanced level is near PADIs Master diver level.

 

[CBulla]

That's why I think it depends on the student. If a person is busy mentally trying to figure out how to stay put at the training platform, perhaps they're missing the other skills and not even benefiting from the basic training.

Jeremy... exactly what I was aiming at. Another line my instructor used that was great was "Think of your self as the 6 million dollar man.. you know that part where everything slows down and the 'wahahahahah' sound came on when he was doing something? Thats how you should approach things with the water. Take your time, go over every step, do it right, and your problems, if any, will be minimalized." By being thoughtful and methodical to preparation the confidence level will be raised because the newer diver can say to themself "I did this right and I'm ready to do it!"

I apply that to learning and knowing skills to. Bouyancy is a skill. If a diver cannot stay neutrally bouyant in the water, what do you see them doing? Inflating their vest, deflating it, sinking, then going past you up somewere above, hitting the reef, holding onto the reef,.. you name it. The same with learning how to kick vs. the dog paddle I've seen occuring. Skills that I think should be ironed out by the time a person takes an advanced course, otherwise they are to busy working with the skills they have not got a handle on yet to work with the new ones in the advanced class. The basic class should be just that, what are your basic skills needed to be a competent diver, while advanced covers additional skills needed to be competent with night diving, collecting, deep dives, wreck dives, cave diving, etc., you name it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

jeremyrfoster once bubbled...

I offer another perspective, however. Some of the people in our class were FAR from confident at the end of OW. One young girl jumped in for her first fun dive after her cert and sank to the bottom of Blue Hole (85') because she forgot about that pesky little buoyancy issue.

It doesn't sound like she was ready for her OW card yet.

The way I see it most of the skill development that some of you are talking about should, of course, be ironed out before taking advanced but I'd go a step durther and say they should be ironed out before ever being certified.

I don't believe that the problem is when the advanced class is tought but rather the problem is that the OW class isn't adequate.

It's during initial training that a diver learns the skills that they'll use on every single dive they ever make. Technique needs to be learned here. Without an adequate foundation to build on it's a wast of time to take the advanced class. Youll just be wallowing in the botom while trying to navigate or do searches or a deep dive.