Should a non-DIR diver use a long hose?

[Soggy]

Edit: I thought of another reason for ascending is not to waste time at depth, where the volume rate of consumption of gas is highest. Since the divers are already sharing and calm, they should ascend promptly to, say, half depth, or maybe a preset depth like 40 feet, where the burn rate is lower. There revisit the gas supply and the need for a pony switch.

Especially since you are diving in NJ, where I doubt you live boat much, you would be better served by figuring out what the rock bottom for your dive profile is and make an attempt to get to the anchor line before reaching your rock bottom. If rock bottom is reached, you have no choice but to begin ascending immediately. Surfacing away from a moored boat is better than drowning, but could leave you in a real bad situation.

 

[BigTuna]

Why is that?

Here's an example of how a buddy dive can turn solo. Arrive on a dive boat without a pre-wired buddy. Get assigned to a buddy known to the DM. Buddy is hunting, and viz at the wreck is 6 feet (no penetration). I'm working the guideline. Buddy makes a turn for a fish and we're out of sight of each other. If he doesn't show up promptly, I'd likely be solo from then on, but able to find my way back to the upline. Buddy would be solo and MIGHT find his way back along the wreck to the upline, but no guarantees. Or he might get totally turned around and need to shoot a bag for a solo ascent. The better the viz, the less of a problem, of course.

Is this scenario different from what you guys in MA experience? I haven't dived there yet, but I hope to this summer. Guess I can find out first hand.

 

[BigTuna]

Especially since you are diving in NJ, where I doubt you live boat much, you would be better served by figuring out what the rock bottom for your dive profile is and make an attempt to get to the anchor line before reaching your rock bottom. If rock bottom is reached, you have no choice but to begin ascending immediately. Surfacing away from a moored boat is better than drowning, but could leave you in a real bad situation.

Yes, I agree. That would SOP, I think, at least that's the way I (we) visuialize my (our) dives. I just neglected to factor the upline into the problem setup. OBTW, the possible need to surface away from the boat is a good reason to carry good surface signaling devices. Maybe I should add a tube of sunblock, too.

 

[jonnythan]

Hi, jonnythan. I'm the same guy you gave the same advice to on another thread sometime last year.

You'll be glad to know that I'm signing up to the logic of DIR's 2-hose arrangement, and that I've been studying up on DIR "best practices."

Since I'm diving wrecks in NJ, where buddy dives can quickly turn solo, I'm continuing use of a pony, for emergencies only (like a skydiver's reserve parachute), as required on most boats. But I'll be slinging it, stage-style.

I'd be interested in your opinion, experience, or references you might have, about whether and how to include a pony in a buddy OOA scenario in open water. Once the OOA diver is breathing from the other's back gas and we've calmed down, we have the option of the OOA diver switching to a pony and ascending independently, with the other diver close by. However, my inclination--assuming enough back gas remains--is not to mess with a known good thing and to ascend in sharing mode. Thoughts?

Edit: I thought of another reason for ascending is not to waste time at depth, where the volume rate of consumption of gas is highest. Since the divers are already sharing and calm, they should ascend promptly to, say, half depth, or maybe a preset depth like 40 feet, where the burn rate is lower. There revisit the gas supply and the need for a pony switch.

Once the emergency is mitigated and managed, you immediately and calmly begin your direct egress as a team. Gas switching is unnecessary and dangerous at this point. Since you know your rock bottom and you know you have more than enough air to make a safe ascent with both divers on your back gas, going to a pony is wholly unnecessary. Your inclination not to mess with something that is working (both divers on your back gas) is absolutely correct.

You absolutely want to keep an eye on the gas in your tanks as you make your ascent, but barring something really extraordinary, it will not be an issue at all.

I believe the reason you want to carry a pony bottle is because you don't feel comfortable trusting your buddy 100% in an OOA situation. That's fine. Sling the bottle, practice with it regularly, and you're good to go. However, the pony bottle is not in this case a team resource. It's a personal resource. It's your backup in case the team breaks down and you suffer an emergency. If your buddy goes OOA, you can effectively manage the situation and egress on your back gas. The pony should never come into play *unless* the team breaks down AND you have an OOA emergency.

 

[Soggy]

This sentence is your entire problem. Solve that one, and the others go away. You are trying to fix a symptom, not the cause.

Arrive on a dive boat without a pre-wired buddy.

Is this scenario different from what you guys in MA experience? I haven't dived there yet, but I hope to this summer. Guess I can find out first hand.

Your problem is entirely unrelated to where you dive and completely related to the choices you are making before you get in the water.

 

[jonnythan]

Here's an example of how a buddy dive can turn solo. Arrive on a dive boat without a pre-wired buddy. Get assigned to a buddy known to the DM.

The entire team concept, which is absolutely central to DIR, has been completely abandoned when you decide to go to a boat without a competent teammate.

 

[Soggy]

OBTW, the possible need to surface away from the boat is a good reason to carry good surface signaling devices.

I don't get in the water....anywhere....without a SMB. If I forgot it at home, that would be grounds for calling the dive. I learned this lesson the hard way early on 35 miles from shore. Thankfully, it was calmish and the boat was following my bubbles. But, surfacing away from a moored boat should be considered one of your absolute last options given the risk involved. Think about how quick fog rolls in in the NE. You might surface away from the boat and no one would even notice for a half hour.

Maybe I should add a tube of sunblock, too.

And maybe some water and some electric underwear, too.....you may be in for a long swim.

 

[BigTuna]

The entire team concept, which is absolutely central to DIR, has been completely abandoned when you decide to go to a boat without a competent teammate.

jonnythan, Soggy:

That's why I'm going to start taking my pony along for resort diving, where you never know....

Let me ask you about hunting. Consider an experienced buddy team in which one or both divers are hunters. Deciding to hunt or to be on a hunting team, it seems to me, means deciding to reduce attention being paid to the buddy, and therefore partial abandonment of the team concept, and therefore increased exposure to the sort of scenario I described. How does this fit in?

 

[Soggy]

Let me ask you about hunting. Consider an experienced buddy team in which one or both divers are hunters. Deciding to hunt or to be on a hunting team, it seems to me means deciding to reduce attention being paid to the buddy, and therefore partial abandonment of the team concept, and therefore increased exposure to the sort of scenario I described. How does this fit in?

You can't both be digging in holes swimming in opposite directions trying to find a lobster. When one of you finds a target, you both work *together* to retrieve it. If it's a lobster, one guy can hold the light while the other digs for it. You can't focus your entire attention on the lobster...you need to, as always, keep your attention moving between you, the environment, the team, and your task.

 

[Snowbear]

... but we can see if there are other options.

I had the Atlantic in mind