Shearwater Perdix AI

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Because you need that digital display convenience, so you have one on your left wrist and one on your right wrist, and maybe purchase an Oceanic Data Mask receiver too

If redundancy is your goal, you need two different technologies. Because they have different failure modes and are less likely to both fail at the same time. Of course that comes with higher chance of them disagreeing, so if you're actually using both, you need a third "tiebreaker" system -- hopefully using a still different tech for the same reasons. If you use one as warm standby, then failing primary leaves your last known readings not matching the next readings (from the backup) and you see interesting spikes and dips and stairs in your dive log. If you use both "hot" then you gotta average over the discrepancies. Up to a point: if the difference it "too big" you have to fail that subsystem. Of course the redundancy considerations apply that "decider" component and to the one doing the averaging as well.

So now you're looking at two of each for strict redundancy, times two+ different technologies, plus the odd number in total for tiebreaking... You do not wanna go there: that way lieth madness.
 
When I started diving in 1970 I had a J valve, it worked OK. In 1972 I got a SPG, I really liked knowing how much gas I had. Since 2002, I have dived Oceanic AI, Pro Plus---Pro Plus 2---my current VT3. I liked having my gas on my dive computer, I liked having gas use recorded and my RMV calculated. For people like me, the Perdix AI is just great. If you don't want AI, get yourself a Petrel 2 or a Perdix, but quit being an a**hole to those of us that choose AI. I see not reason for it.
 
Lung Volumes.gif

Maybe its time for a quick review of basic respiratory physiology.

From DAN's website: "Surface air consumption (SAC), sometimes called surface gas consumption (SGC), is a measure of your rate of gas usage expressed in pounds per square inch (psi) or, for metric divers, in bars of pressure. It's the first thing you need to know to calculate your gas needs for any given dive."

From me: RMV = tidal volume x respiratory rate. Normal tidal volume is 5-8 ml/kg.
 
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Yesterday as I was on the boat setting up to go out, UPS dropped off my Perdix AI. It was simple to setup and I was able to use it 15 mins after taking it out of the box. When I got home I setup the AI aspect with an oceanic transmitter. So far very happy with this purchase so far.
 
@Kevrumbo

I think you're being deliberately argumentative and somewhat disingenuous. You saw from my previous post, how having the right information on your wrist can assist from getting out of a tricky situation. Now I've relied on my computer to assist me like that twice. But for me to have reassurance and faith in it, I need to trust it first. So on vanilla dives I learn to interpret what it's telling me, and ensure the data it's given me ties in with my SPG and my brain. Thus in a tight spot I can free up mental band width from gas and time calcs to more pressing matters - like getting out of the tight spot.

We all know that basic divign instruction leave a lot to be desired. So if GTR or TTS etc make teh user think, surely that's a good thing. Newer divers are getting a real time update (ish) and a visual reference of how depth changes their gas consumption.

When we used tables, people religiously planned their dives. With NDL times people are more likely to ride the clock. but do we say that NDL time is a bad thing?. And yes I've met people that have a few hundred dives who still don't understand the relationship between depth and time.

We all have differing perspectives. You don't think that AI is anything more than an expensive gimmick. I like the functionality, and don't consider it expensive. The cost of our 8 transmitters doesn't make a dent in my monthly income. For others the opposite is true.

Riding a computer will always be bad of course. Instead of GTR, why not Rock bottom?

I personally don't like SW iteration of AI. They should have had RMV and their excuse that inputting tank sizes can lead to mistakes is a little foolish (IMO) given it's a multi gas computer, and you run the same risk of making a mistake with your gasses. Perhaps they are just making baby steps who knows.

But I'd give people who have less than 50 dives a bit of an easier time given they're still learning
 
I was thinking about this train wreck of a thread over the weekend, specifically the points made about "convenience" and "data logging."

I recalled that when I was a newer diver I constantly, almost obsessively checked my SPG, due to the fear of "running out of air." At the time, I might even have taken interest in Kevrumbo's tongue-in-cheek suggestion of AI gauges on both my wrists plus a heads-up-display for good measure. So, as mentioned previously, perhaps there is some relationship between the definition of "CONVENIENCE" and a diver's experience level and hence comfort level. I'm not saying that anyone who deems AI "convenient" is therefore an inexperienced diver. Stuart and other experienced divers here apparently find it convenient even for technical diving. Anyway, as I gained experience I checked my SPG less often. It was probably not until I took the GUE Fundies course that the idea of checking the SPG "only to confirm what I already knew" clicked with me. That, coupled with being taught to check the SPG manually in just a few seconds, is probably why I don't presently see myself wanting AI. It might be fun to see my pressure displayed on my wrist, but I was taught to do it the way I was taught, and it works perfectly for me. I'm not changing how I dive now, as it's a system that's ingrained in me. I won't completely rule out AI in my future, but I am more than content with my present system and training in this regard.

Similarly, there might be some relationship between experience and the desire for "data logging." Again, I'm not saying that anyone who likes the data logging feature that AI provides is therefore an inexperienced diver. However, my impression is that, on average, more experienced divers log less. Experienced divers, especially tech divers, generally know their SAC like they know their height or weight. They might go through the calculation now and then to update/confirm it, but that's all. If and when the diver wants to do that, it seems to me it's easy enough to write a few numbers on a slate or just memorize them (specifically, starting and ending pressure and average depth) and calculate later. I don't see the point in knowing one's "instantaneous" SAC or RMV. Isn't it sufficient to simply know that it goes up a bit when you're stressed or working hard and goes down a bit when you're relaxed and just floating along? How much accuracy is useful? You calculate some average over a few dives under different conditions that you generally encounter and use that number in your future planning, until such time as you feel like updating/confirming it again. All you need is an average, from which you can then in your dive planning, if you wish, adjust up a little or down a little to account for different conditions. Extreme accuracy, such as knowing your SAC was exactly X when you were diving under conditions A, B, C and D, doesn't seem to me to be of as much practical use as a simple average, since conditions are rarely exactly the same on any two dives.
 
@Kevrumbo
. . .
Riding a computer will always be bad of course. Instead of GTR, why not Rock bottom?

I personally don't like SW iteration of AI. They should have had RMV and their excuse that inputting tank sizes can lead to mistakes is a little foolish (IMO) given it's a multi gas computer, and you run the same risk of making a mistake with your gasses. Perhaps they are just making baby steps who knows.

But I'd give people who have less than 50 dives a bit of an easier time given they're still learning

Rock Bottom, yes, that's what my wife/buddy and I try to use. I just don't see how an AI computer is really going to make it much simpler for us by calculating GTR or Rock Bottom or anything else. I know that for us to do an air-sharing ascent from 66 feet, we each need at least 1500 psi in our Al 80s. So, if I am at 66 feet, and my SPG reads less than 1500 I signal my buddy, and we ascend a bit. Sure, an AI computer could do a more precise calculation of Rock Bottom for, say, 63 feet or 70 feet, but a rough idea of Rock Bottom at, say, 99, 66 and 33 feet is sufficient to let us know when we need to ascend at any point in our dive.
 
It is very kind of you to say "Stuart and other experienced divers" but I consider myself to be not all THAT experienced as a recreational diver and very INexperienced as a tech diver. I've just barely gotten started in tech diving.

I made a comment a while back, in a thread about integrated BCDs versus BP/W setups. It boiled down to saying that newer dives often perceive things with more options as being better. As they gain experience, they learn which of those extra features are ones they will actually take advantage and which ones turn out to be never used. Thus why an integrated BCD often looks better to newer divers who, later, realize that a BP/W with Hogarthian harness is all they have a use for and the simplicity, durability, and reduced cost are more important to them than all those BCD features (which they turn out to never use).

I can totally see AI as being ALMOST the same thing. Data logging and evaluating my gas consumption on many different dives in different conditions is important to me - right now. I have already learned that my SAC is pretty different on tech dives (in a drysuit, in cold water) than it is on rec dives (thin wetsuit, single tank, etc.). That has been really handy. Will it continue to offer me so much value as a get more experienced in tech diving? Probably not. But.... so what?

The reason I said AI is "almost" the same as the BCD/BPW debate is that there is one important difference. While the data logging, like the BCD "features", may become less and less important over time, the convenience of seeing my gas data on my wrist, with my other data, will always be there. Many have said that they rarely look at their SPG and, when they do, it is just to confirm what they already know. Okay. If I check my computer two or three times for every one time I check my SPG, it is still quicker and easier to note the pressure reading when I check my computer than it is to check my computer and then reach down, unclip, hold it up, then put it back and re-clip. It is even easier than looking down at a gauge that is clipped to a chest D-ring (though the difference is not as great). It is also easier for my aging eyes to read a number on my wrist than a gauge that is clipped to my chest. My wrist is further away from my eyes...

As for SAC and tech diving, I made this observation the other day: I can write out my dive plan and note expected tank pressures at my various waypoints, and I can check my consumption along the way to confirm that my actual consumption matches my planned consumption. But, if I'm on a tech dive that I planned for 0.8 cu-ft/min RMV and I work that out to XX psi/min, then having a SAC displayed on my wrist that I can monitor lets me have a continuous, precise, and accurate monitor of whether my dive is going to plan, versus either having to wait for a waypoint to know or do mental math based on a less precise readings from a 2" dial SPG. I don't see this as a necessity, of course. Like having an SPG on my wrist, it is merely a convenience that lets me spend more time paying attention to my dive and less time spent on my safety checks (while, at the same time, doing them more often).
 
What do you spend all that extra time on during your dives that you saved by not having to look at a separate SPG? :wink: The day I miss the whaleshark because I spent an extra three seconds looking at my SPG when I could have been glancing at my wrist is the day I will switch to AI.

I like the BC analogy. It's interesting that there are divers who buy into the "minimalism" aspect of the BP/W, but are gung-ho on AI. I don't see AI as completely incompatible with minimalism, but between a mechanical system and an electrical system, I would argue the mechanical system is simpler, though I know the other side of the argument.

By the way, you ARE the Scubanati now.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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