well our whole country is in trouble then
seein' that our whole economy is based on supply and demand!!
seein' that our whole economy is based on supply and demand!!
Shark feeding
- Thread starter cdiver2
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H2Andy
Contributor
huh?
ok... one last try:
not every demand is desirable from a societal point of view.
thus, our laws regulate what demands are allowed and which are not.
for example, demands we have decided belong in the
"hunky dory" category are such things as cars, radios,
t.v.s, and consensual sex.
demands we have decided belong in the "no no"
category include stolen goods and rape.
demand for shark feeding has been considered by two states (Hawaii and
Florida) and at least one country (the Cayman Islands) and has been found to be undesirable and thus has been made illegal.
this has NOTHING to do with the fact of whether the feedings are a good
idea or not. that is a different argument (for example, some drugs that
are illegal in the US are legal in the Netherlands; nude bathing which is
illegal in the US is legal in some parts of Europe, and so on...)
the counterpart to this is saying "it's illegal so it's bad" or "it's legal so it's good."
in both cases, that's not an argument; that's a cop-out. slavey was legal at one point. did that make it right? it's illegal in Florida for a man and a woman to co-habitate without being married (it is, believe it or not). Does that make it wrong?
i was responding to SpritelyMermaid, whose argument was that people are willing to pay for shark feedings, so feeding sharks is ok. i am saying that not everything people are willing to pay for, including shark feeding, is desirable or should be encouraged or allowed. thus, simply saying "people are willing to pay for it" is not the end of the argument.
ok... one last try:
not every demand is desirable from a societal point of view.
thus, our laws regulate what demands are allowed and which are not.
for example, demands we have decided belong in the
"hunky dory" category are such things as cars, radios,
t.v.s, and consensual sex.
demands we have decided belong in the "no no"
category include stolen goods and rape.
demand for shark feeding has been considered by two states (Hawaii and
Florida) and at least one country (the Cayman Islands) and has been found to be undesirable and thus has been made illegal.
this has NOTHING to do with the fact of whether the feedings are a good
idea or not. that is a different argument (for example, some drugs that
are illegal in the US are legal in the Netherlands; nude bathing which is
illegal in the US is legal in some parts of Europe, and so on...)
the counterpart to this is saying "it's illegal so it's bad" or "it's legal so it's good."
in both cases, that's not an argument; that's a cop-out. slavey was legal at one point. did that make it right? it's illegal in Florida for a man and a woman to co-habitate without being married (it is, believe it or not). Does that make it wrong?
i was responding to SpritelyMermaid, whose argument was that people are willing to pay for shark feedings, so feeding sharks is ok. i am saying that not everything people are willing to pay for, including shark feeding, is desirable or should be encouraged or allowed. thus, simply saying "people are willing to pay for it" is not the end of the argument.
OP
cdiver2
Contributor
Tavi:
I am willing to pay to shoot bald eagles, manates and elephant so with your way of thinking does that makes it ok. Yes our country is in trouble, it is geting a lot of pressure from the rest of the world on its efforts or lack of effort in environmental protection and IMHO should be.
After just returning from PNG and seeing first hand what a pristine underwater environment looks like I am shocked. The keys, Bahamas, Cozumel and even the GBR look like a desert in comparison. A lot of things we the most intelligent species on earth do is detrimental to the well-being of it and have to learn where to draw the line as to what we will do for a $ or there will be nothing left for your grandson to see
What is "PNG?" If it's Pacific you should not compare it to Caribbean systems, which are richer for a wide variety of reasons exlclusive of manmade effects.
If it IS Caribbean, I'll just shut up now.
If it IS Caribbean, I'll just shut up now.
H2Andy
Contributor
I think it's Papua, New Guinea. but archman, what do you mean the Caribbean
systems are richer for a wide variety of reasons?
it's my understanding that the Caribbean can't hold a candle to the Pacific in terms
of coral quality and animal life.
systems are richer for a wide variety of reasons?
it's my understanding that the Caribbean can't hold a candle to the Pacific in terms
of coral quality and animal life.
OP
cdiver2
Contributor
archman:
Papua New Guinea yes the Pacific. But I am not comparing type of coral/life but the overall health of what is there the GBR is Pacific and not to far from PNG but there is a world of difference, GBR thousands of divers, chemical run off from the farm land, PNG very few divers and no chemical run off from the land. If you saw it I think you would understand what I am trying to say, our reefs must have looked something like this at one time so so sad.
I do understand what you're saying, but you're still comparing two completely different tropical reef communities. The Caribbean and Indo-Pacific faunas diverged very long ago on the geologic time scale, and it is very difficult to make direct comparisons regarding status of environmental degradation between them.
There ARE pristine Caribbean systems (one of the best is 200 miles away from me), and when you compare them to the Keys you will see a mort of difference. However even the most beautiful Caribbean system still is a pale shadow in species richness, taxonomic richness, and species diversity to a "comparable" Pacific one.
It's also getting increasingly more difficult to differentiate reef health between natural and manmade disturbances. But I digress, and I like the way you think cdiver2, so I'll shut up for now and see how the shark feeding thread progresses.
There ARE pristine Caribbean systems (one of the best is 200 miles away from me), and when you compare them to the Keys you will see a mort of difference. However even the most beautiful Caribbean system still is a pale shadow in species richness, taxonomic richness, and species diversity to a "comparable" Pacific one.
It's also getting increasingly more difficult to differentiate reef health between natural and manmade disturbances. But I digress, and I like the way you think cdiver2, so I'll shut up for now and see how the shark feeding thread progresses.
cdiver2:
I take your point sadly in the majority of cases of operations conducting shark feeds. I do believe that if they are proeprly conducted and have some meaningful educational content then that can be of value.
Also, the opurtunity to purely get close with these creatures would help people to gain greater appreciation of them and maybe then they wouldn't be so maligned.
cdiver2:
I never said it was my way of thinking. I never said that it made it okay.
Your last paragraph is well said. But our government will go for the $$ rather than what's best for future generations.
It's us that keeps trying to make everything "right" or "wrong". Some things just are. It's us who decides if it's right or wrong, and we all think differently.
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