Sharing air to extend bottom time

[Peter Guy]

Thank you Andy.

 

[redacted]

Too much comfort can be a bad thing.... and it's often the cause of avoidable incidents amongst the experienced diver demographic. The solution, in my opinion, is the clear designation of emergency procedures as automated responses to emergency scenarios.... no ambiguity.

I'm not really sure that is true but, even if it is true; I doubt it trumps the problem of too much discomfort.

It really is hard to train and practice too much.

 

[BluewaterSail]

So are we equating comfort with complacency?

We do know that complacency can kill.

But does a planned share of gas well before the turn point lead to complacency? The routine sharing done by a DM to keep the group in the water might, but I am not convinced that what Peter and TS&M did does.

 

[Fish-R-Man]

I think part of the problem with the controversy of air sharing stems from the development and evolution of the gear we are currently using today.

When I started diving we used J-valves on our tanks. I don't recall of there were any other options. There were no SPG's available, or at least I didn't know of any one that had one. I grew up diving around kelp in Southern California and the channel Islands. I couldn't tell you how many times that I had kelp switch the postion of the J-valve so that when you needed the reserve, it wasn't there.

The instruction that I received then stressed the buddy breathing concept. We practiced it regularly. OOA situations were a regular occurrence. As far as fills went, the pressure in our tanks was checked when we picked up the bottles and that was the last time we knew what we had for pressure until we sucked them dry.

I would venture to guess that most rec divers have never or very seldom ever even used thier second.... Much less practiced air sharing or buddy breathing after they completed thier OW class. The idea of sharing air in the right conditions, I believe is beneficial. Primarily for the familiarity of the procedure. The majority of the individuals that have posted in this thread that do so as a matter of choice, I am sure are experienced and have all of the skills, mind set, etc to do so safely. To me, the idea of a DM sharing air to extend a dive with inexperienced divers is simply just a bad idea.

 

[TSandM]

I will offer another point of view, Andy. I work in a field where people get taught protocols, and one of the most dangerous things in the whole medical world is a protocol which is utilized where it is not appropriate. I do not want anybody I teach to develop a steamroller approach to any diving situation -- one where situation A results in responses B, C, D and so on, without thought and without decision.

I think, if someone is unable to differentiate between a diver who is truly out of gas, and an elective gas-sharing situation planned in advance and executed as planned, that person has a lot more problems than simple complacency. And having been in a couple of situations where I suddenly had no breathing gas (never out of gas, but twice switched to a stage that wasn't turned on, and once had my gas turned off by an instructor) I was amazed that, despite all the training I've done for out of gas situations, I still had an enormous adrenaline rush that occurred during the split second before my rational mind kicked in and analyzed the problem. I think, for most people, the likelihood of losing the awareness of urgency in the face of a true out of gas scenario is pretty darned low.

 

[SeaCobra]

I think, for most people, the likelihood of losing the awareness of urgency in the face of a true out of gas scenario is pretty darned low.

With a great deal of respect, I have to disagree with this statement. As I recall (feel free to correct me) the average divers does somewhere around 12 dives per year. I am not talking about the stellar divers that we all train and dive with, but the real Joe Diver out there that goes on a few dives once a year on vacation. They rarely, if at all, practice the basic foundation skills like mask clearing and donating to an OOA diver. Faced with a real emergency most will be quite stressed, if not in full panic.

One of the real problems with this practice is that you are depleting the air supply of one diver by the other when not necessary. Now should an air emergency arise via an equipment failure or increased workload you have dipped into your reserve that could have useful in the new emergency.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

In so far as 'skillset' - yes, it should be achievable. The actual skill to 'perform a safe ascent whilst sharing air' should be repeatable whilst diving horizontally (rather than ascending vertically) in the water.

However, having capability to perform an activity is not, in itself, a credible reason to perform that activity.



I believe that all core skills should be practiced frequently. A skill is only as good as the last time it was practiced correctly.

As with an emergency drill, the issue of 'ingrained reaction' is critical. The skill is designed to permit divers to ascend safely to the surface, when OOA/LOA, with the support of their buddy. In that respect, if forms a prime foundation that underpins the whole notion of 'recreational' dive training.

To properly ingrain air-sharing as an emergency ascent protocol, I believe the following critical skills and mindset are necessary in practice:

1. Immediate recognition and acceptance of OOA/LOA as an emergency circumstance
2. Recognition of buddy as a source of air and safe ascent - a preferable resolution to the emergency circumstance.
3. Swift location and acquisition of the buddy's emergency air source.
4. Maintenance of firm mutual, physical contact between the buddy and receiver (unless specific long-hose capacity is trained for - even then, mutual physical support can be a critical factor, especially when reaching the surface)
5. Safe ascent procedures, displaying pro-active planning (actions on surfacing - acquisition of positive buoyancy etc), buoyancy control (oral, if OOA) and ascent speed.
6. Stress management and emotional control techniques.

If the practice does not enable those critical attributes, or worse... actively degrades them, then it can be counter-productive. That is one reason why I view casual use of air-sharing, as a non-emergency procedure, to be potentially damaging to emergency response reactions. Whilst comfort in the act of air-sharing is valuable, it should not be at the expense of developing complacency or hesitation in a LOA/OOA situation.

I say this because I have, on occasion, found myself in low-on-air or out-of-air situations underwater.... sometimes knowingly and, otherwise, avoidably. My only explanation for that is complacency. I have a high tolerance for stress and a high degree of comfort in air deprivation scenarios. I won't bat an eyelid if I find myself sucking fumes from my tank at depth - and that does truly scare me. I have to rationalize the danger I am in, because my comfort level dictates that any sense of urgency or distress will be missing. Of course, it's very beneficial that panic isn't an immediate likelihood, but having an ingrained psychological and physical response to OOA/LOA as an emergency situation is also critical. Too much comfort can be a bad thing.... and it's often the cause of avoidable incidents amongst the experienced diver demographic. The solution, in my opinion, is the clear designation of emergency procedures as automated responses to emergency scenarios.... no ambiguity.

I find these comments ridiculous! Sharing air on a dive is going to degrade performance in a real emergency? Do you have ANY evidence of this or are you just throwing it out there...?????

 

[TSandM]

SeaCobra, you misread my statement. What I said was that I thought it was very unlikely that someone would fail to recognize being out of gas as an emergency. I'm with you -- I think, for most people, the stress level is likely to be high and panic not far away. Defusing that is useful, I believe.

 

[Peter Guy]

[Just can't help myself -- here goes.]

DumpsterD -- Ya Think? Andy -- do you really think that practicing for emergencies "dulls the response?" If so, why is it that Cave Divers (at least, don't know about wreck divers) are trained to do S-drills and Valve drills AT THE START OF EVERY DIVE. Whether they do it is another question, but the protocol seems to be, DO the emergency drills at the start of every dive so that IF "it" happens, the incident will be treated as the non-event it can be.

I really can't help but think that the Vacation Resort Instructors (who do see some very lax training/experience in their divers) are just flailing around to justify their negative reaction to "this practice" because THEY KNOW that the vast majority of the "divers" they see can't do this in a comfortable, reliable and repeatable manner (even though they should be able to do so). Thus there MUST BE some reason NOT to do this and the Vacation Resort Instructors will search for that reason -- however dumb and irrational it might be.

SeaCobra -- What?

Now should an air emergency arise via an equipment failure or increased workload you have dipped into your reserve that could have useful in the new emergency.

Have you not read and followed what we write? This is NOT about "dipping into reserves" but, to the contrary, ensuring that neither diver does such. At all times the divers need to, and if they are doing this right (pun intended) will maintain an appropriate rock bottom/minimum gas supply. It may well be that most divers can't do this, but really, so what? Why should the few who can do this be sentenced to the lowest common denominator?

 

[DevonDiver]

Andy -- do you really think that practicing for emergencies "dulls the response?"

No. I thought I had made my thoughts clear - bastardizing an emergency drill into something completely different "dulls the response".

If so, why is it that Cave Divers (at least, don't know about wreck divers) are trained to do S-drills and Valve drills AT THE START OF EVERY DIVE. Whether they do it is another question, but the protocol seems to be, DO the emergency drills at the start of every dive so that IF "it" happens, the incident will be treated as the non-event it can be.

Agreed. But what they don't do is turn the s-drills into something else - such as extend them as part of a gas plan.

A drill is a drill.

Practicing a scenario, is practicing a scenario.

Using a drill or practice for a secondary objective, is neither nor...

I really can't help but think that the Vacation Resort Instructors ... Thus there MUST BE some reason NOT to do this and the Vacation Resort Instructors will search for that reason -- however dumb and irrational it might be.

Whilst I live/dive in a 'vacation' area, I really don't see much of 'vacation divers', except occasionally sharing a boat with them - my diving is pretty specific nowadays. That said, in 20 years diving on 5 continents, I've never heard of divers doing this...and have never considered doing it myself. It always seemed wrong to me - and I've been prone to some very dubious undertakings in my time....