Sharing air to extend bottom time

[DevonDiver]

There are not that many vacationing divers who come equipped with long hoses to share air in a comfortable or safe manner at depth to extend bottom time. There are not many that have the understanding of gas management to share air in a safe manner at depth. This is what I see week in and week out.

Agreed - my experience also.

...and also one of my major concerns with the avocation of this 'proposed technique'....

As a dive pro... with a duty of care... exactly who do I consider qualified and competent to utilize this technique?

I won't let you dive to 130ft without proof of relevant experience and training.
I won't let you dive solo without proof of relevant experience and training.
I won't let you inside a wreck without proof of relevant experience and training.

How do I decide whether I allow an unknown diver, on my dive boat...under my duty of care, to plan an air-sharing extended-bottom time dive plan?

If that competence level can't be identified, how can anyone truly justify this as a recommended technique for X, Y or X diver?

 

[supergaijin]

I dont think sidemount training (or backmount or pony for that matter) by itself is irrelevant, but I think its irrelevant in this particular discussion, due to the fact that most divers dont have the gear or the training for it.

The problem that I see is that most divers don't have the gear (long hose) and training to safely share air at depth either.

The training provided for the vast majority of divers is to share air as an emergency ascent. They are face to face, linked arms (or BCD) and heading for the surface. I know as an instructor, doing the simulation swimming sideways is not a comfortable thing for me or the student- but it is part of training. Does that qualify them to share air at depth? No.

The vast majority of divers should spend more effort in simply slowing down, swimming and breathing efficiently as opposed to using their buddy's better consumption as a shortcut to getting a few more mins underwater, or arrange for a more gas in the form of a bigger tank.

 

[Teamcasa]

You mean the one that:

1. Is only recommended to 'experienced' divers of some undefinable skill and comfort level?

2. Is not taught, or recommended, or sanctioned by any agency on the planet?

3. Ignores all manner of gas planning and self-sufficiency advice that we'd otherwise give?

4. Willfully disregards all other solutions, because they might not be 'as convenient'?

5. Risks bystander/diver reaction, if misinterpreted as an emergency?

6. Would leave any dive pro in serious liability jeopardy?

7. Encourages divers to deviate from standardized and prudent safe diving practices?

Yep.
1. Yes. But they decide their air sharing capability. See number 2
2. Air sharing IS taught by all agencies.
3. No, it does not - but you knew that already.
4. In your opinion.
5. Really? I doubt it, as I said, it is discussed before the dive.
6. Now that cracked me up, thanks.
7. See number 2.

---------- Post added ----------

The problem that I see is that most divers don't have the gear (long hose) and training to safely share air at depth either.

A long hose allows for single file air sharing, a standard octo hose works fine side by side an is perfectly safe when diving in the open ocean. To say otherwise is a bit disingenuous.

 

[caseybird]

I don't quite what you read to be hysterical. Maybe I need to make myself clearer and this time I will put on my professional cap. I am in an excellent position to see the 'average' diver on vacation.

There are not that many vacationing divers who come equipped with long hoses to share air in a comfortable or safe manner at depth to extend bottom time. There are not many that have the understanding of gas management to share air in a safe manner at depth. This is what I see week in and week out.

Well, I've seen it done plenty of times. No flailing, no hysteria. Divers seem to be able to understand gas management in this context.
But, OK, don't do it on your dive, Cool with me.

 

[DevonDiver]

1. Yes. But they decide their air sharing capability. See number 2
How? Having never been taught to air-share for that purpose? At any level of training/experience?

Check out the 'Inconsistent message to new divers' thread - where the consensus is that novice divers are particularly unlikely to be able to designate their own skill and capability level.

2. Air sharing IS taught by all agencies.

Show me a syllabus that teaches divers to air share for the purposes of extending bottom time.

As previously mentioned, and obviously ignored, divers are taught to complete air-sharing emergency ascents.

CESA is taught by all agencies also. Perhaps we should use that as a method to extend dives... just get rid of the whole 'minimum reserve' nonsense? LMAO It is 'taught'...after all!

3. No, it does not - but you knew that already.

How can planning a dive to X depth for Y minutes, requiring Z liters of air... but entering the water with less than Z liters of air... on the basis of receiving support from another diver, in order to make the dive plan work... be described, in any way, as SELF-SUFFICIENCY???

If that's hard... try this one:

Tim enters a candy shop with $1. He wants to buy candy that cost $1.25. His friend has some more money. Does Tim have enough money to buy the candy?

4. In your opinion.

In the opinion of the agencies... and, yes, in my opinion too.

5. Really? I doubt it, as I said, it is discussed before the dive.

What? All the dive boats get together for a huddle and thrash it out amongst their customers every day?

6. Now that cracked me up, thanks.

Sure... if you believe in it... teach it.

Tell your students "I recommend that you share air, when you and your buddy have substantially varied air consumption... so that you can extend the overall dive time".

If someone subsequently gets hurt... you'll have put your money where your mouth is.

7. See number 2.

Again, show me a quote from any agency that advocates, or recommends this technique as a legitimate safe diving practice.

Just one quote.... one skill in one course... for the purposes we are discussing (extending dive duration).... please.... please.... please.....

Here is exactly what is taught, along with the clearly defined context and purpose...

Confined Water:
Respond to air depletion by signaling “out of air,” and securing and breathing from an alternate air source supplied by a buddy. Continue for at least one minute while swimming.

Open Water:
Perform each role: In a stationary position, one person signals “out of air” and “share air,” and secures and breathes from an alternate air source provided by another diver; the other diver provides the air source.
Ascend properly using an alternate air source and establish positive buoyancy

Notice the words "out of air" and "ascend". Funny, but no mention of a signal for "let's make the dive longer, I'm an air hog and didn't organize a bigger tank"

 

[windapp]

I still think that any dive guide who initiates an unplanned air sharing when there is no emergency should not be a dive guide. The whole thing would have scared the crap out of me.

 

[Teamcasa]

OK, It's obvious that you know what I'm saying and you feel like it's important to point out the that you would never do it and that you think anyone who does is some sort of scofflaw or just too stupid to know any better. So like Peter, I give up.

However, I will still share air with my lovely bride for the purpose of extending my bottom time and I don't really care if anyone approves or not. I would also council others to practice air-sharing with their regular dive buddies so that should the situation warrants it, by all means borrow a liter or two and watch others end their dives sooner.

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

I still think that any dive guide who initiates an unplanned air sharing when there is no emergency should not be a dive guide. The whole thing would have scared the crap out of me.

Well then you are exactly the sort of person who should be air sharing at depth. Nothing about sharing air should be scary. You get there through practice

 

[diverrex]

OK, It's obvious that you know what I'm saying and you feel like it's important to point out the that you would never do it and that you think anyone who does is some sort of scofflaw or just too stupid to know any better. So like Peter, I give up.

However, I will still share air with my lovely bride for the purpose of extending my bottom time and I don't really care if anyone approves or not. I would also council others to practice air-sharing with their regular dive buddies so that should the situation warrants it, by all means borrow a liter or two and watch others end their dives sooner.

Hey Dave it's fine with me if I see you and your wife sharing air, I'll just wave.

 

[windapp]

Well then you are exactly the sort of person who should be air sharing at depth. Nothing about sharing air should be scary. You get there through practice

Air sharing at depth is not scary. Being made to share air without previously discussing it when there is no apparent emergency is scary. Refusing to end a dive as per the agreed upon plan is scary. As my guide or buddy you should be 100 percent predictable. Plan your dive and dive your plan. I still day this person should not be a dive guide.