"Shadow Divers" Revisited

[Deefstes]

I've read Shadow Divers not too long ago and I'm currently reading The Last Dive, almost done. I'm only an AOW diver with absolute no knowledge and training of technical diving so I'm probably at the stage that RJP was when he read the book for the first time.

I'd also say that most of what they're doing is way over my head but I can't deny that I find a lot of it hair raising to say the least. I mean, they tell of dives to 300ft on air! I'm sure diving was a different ball game back then and that a lot has changed since but was that actually acceptable practice back then? I'm sure these days, if someone dies on a 240 penetration dive into an unsanitized wreck while diving air, he would probably garner little sympathy and if he doesn't die he would garner little admiration.

In my perception, the main difference these days between ordinary divers like me and advanced divers are that advanced divers have way more training and experience and take way more safety measures (I've never dived with a redundant anything, other than an octo). When reading "The Last Dive" and to a lesser extent "Shadow Divers" I almost get the impression that the difference then was the amount of risk that people were willing to take. OK, and the amount of experience which has to count for something - but doesn't prevent you from getting killed, as the Rouses showed.

Am I wrong?

 

[Willar]

This is just from my weak memory, but I thought Horenberg was sick so he didn't sail on into the Atlantic. The crew came to say goodbye to him. His knife was still on the uboat but he was not when it sailed to the Atlantic and it's final resting place.

EDIT:
Oops, my memory was wrong. Horenberg did perish on the boat, Guschewski was the one who didn't sail with the uboat. Check Ritchie Kohler's web sitehttp://www.u869.com/ for more info.

 

[burna]

This is just from my weak memory, but I thought Horenberg was sick so he didn't sail on into the Atlantic. The crew came to say goodbye to him. His knife was still on the uboat but he was not when it sailed to the Atlantic and it's final resting place.

That was Guschewski.
I did write that.

 

[Hockeynut]

Later, in the Epilogue (page 354-55), Guschewski tells Kohlor about how his sickness just prior to the boat sailing forced him stay in hospital and how the crew came to visit him. Horenberg was among them which indicates he was on the boat when it sailed. He also is listed on the crew list, whereas Guschewski is not, also indicating Horenberg was on the vessel when it sailed.

So...if he was on the U-boat when it sailed and no one survived the sinking, how could the U-boat enthusiast have spoken with him to be told the knife was a dead end? Or was this 'enthusiast' just providing bogus info?

Is there something that I have missed here??

They received a bull**** tip. That wasn't clear?

 

[burna]

OK, I figured that the 'enthusiast' must've been bogus, but, no, not exactly clear...well not for me anyway!

 

[elmer fudd]

I've read Shadow Divers not too long ago and I'm currently reading The Last Dive, almost done. I'm only an AOW diver with absolute no knowledge and training of technical diving so I'm probably at the stage that RJP was when he read the book for the first time.

I'd also say that most of what they're doing is way over my head but I can't deny that I find a lot of it hair raising to say the least. I mean, they tell of dives to 300ft on air! I'm sure diving was a different ball game back then and that a lot has changed since but was that actually acceptable practice back then? I'm sure these days, if someone dies on a 240 penetration dive into an unsanitized wreck while diving air, he would probably garner little sympathy and if he doesn't die he would garner little admiration.

In my perception, the main difference these days between ordinary divers like me and advanced divers are that advanced divers have way more training and experience and take way more safety measures (I've never dived with a redundant anything, other than an octo). When reading "The Last Dive" and to a lesser extent "Shadow Divers" I almost get the impression that the difference then was the amount of risk that people were willing to take. OK, and the amount of experience which has to count for something - but doesn't prevent you from getting killed, as the Rouses showed.

Am I wrong?

When Cousteau's team dove the Brittanic back in '76 they did it with trimix, so that stuff actually was around. I'm sure it wasn't your everyday breathing gas and you would have had to search high and low to find a dive shop that would fill it for you, but it was known.

 

[scubadada]

I used to take risks when I was younger, but at some point I realized that it just wasn't fair to others. When you risk your own safety, you also risk the happiness and wellbeing of your family and your friends, and the safety and wellbeing of the divers and rescue personnel that may have to assist you.

So now I try to follow the rules, out of an awareness that I have no right to put others at risk for my own selfish enjoyment. I call it "growing up".

Mike is right on. Several years ago, diving the Spiegel Grove solo, I descended just 2 decks below the main deck without laying a line. I easily made it back one deck, but, for the life of me, could not find the hatch back up to the main deck. Luckily, I turned off my light, saw the faint glow of blue, and swam my way out. I have not taken such a risk since, it's just not worth it.

Good diving, Craig

 

[caseybird]

RJP
We don't ever stop learning these lessons, do we?
Steve

 

[Chatterton]

After I found the Horenberg knife, I immediately gave the information to several sources in the US and Germany, in order to find out what boat Horenberg was on.

The U-boat enthusiast you are referring to was a nut, and still is. I assumed his refusal to put me in touch with Horenberg was about control, or other mental health issues. This guy was not the first crazy U-boat guy I had encountered, and I had no reason to doubt him? When Rob Kurson interviewed him, he denied the conversation ever took place, so he is referred to as the "U-boat Enthusiast" as opposed to referencing him by name.

It was a day or two later when I was told by another source that the only Horenberg in the U-boat service was Martin Horenberg, who went down off the coast of Africa, on the U-869 in 1945. I was so confused, discouraged and pissed off, that John Yurga and I went to Germany to find out for ourselves. That did not work out either?

Cheers

JC

 

[Rhone Man]

Shadow Divers is an excellent book for illustrating vividly the risk associated with deep wreck diving. Deep Descent (which also obliquely references the U-869 accidents) is also a gripping and harrowing read.