1.6 ATA is 218 fsw. Not exactly WAY above at 230.
Shadow Divers: John Chatterton's Interview with ScubaBoard
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Sorry, you are right - I was thinking it was way above 1.4 ATA (or 180 feet), which is I think as deep as anyone suggests you should dive on air these days.
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In retrospect, I can't think of a single incident that I could atribute to O2 Toxicity form the old Air (and Air only) days. Toxicity only became an issue for deep air, when divers tried to accelerate their decompression by using Nitrox and/or O2 after a dep air dive. Obviously, the issue was high PPO2 on the bottom, then high PPO2 on the hang as well. The threat that everyone talked about was getting bent, not toxing out? If you were not tracking CNS O2, you could get your self into trouble quickly this way and I am sure the internet is full of stoies.
Certainly, this was one of the main motivators for me (and I assume everyone else) for Trimix, as one of the greatest benefits was knocking down the O2 for the bottom phase of the dive.
Of course, the other obvious benefit was limiting narcosis. No one ever died form narcosis, but it caused a lack of motor control and manual dexterity, loss of peripherial vision, distorted the perception of time, altered breathing patterns, and produced an urge to occasionally abandon the plan and wing it, which certainly becomes a judgement issue.
Only a few very experienced divers ventured deep on air in those days, and that was the only thing that prevented more divers from being seriously injured. It was nothing like mainstream diving, and deep air divers had no interest in bringing it to the masses. We knew it was dangerous, and we knew we were on our own. Then again, my first Trimix dive inside the U-boat scared the cap out of me because it was the first time I saw the wreck interior to be as hazardous as it really was.
No one knows for sure, but I agree that Steve Feldman probably had issues with CO2, not O2. At the onset of the incident his bottom time was a modest 13 minutes, where some of us were doing up to 25 on air? It seems the effects of CO2 are not fully understood by modern hyperbaric scientists. Then again, maybe they are all knowing, but they don't want to tell us?
Personally, I like empirical knowledge.
CHeers
JC
Certainly, this was one of the main motivators for me (and I assume everyone else) for Trimix, as one of the greatest benefits was knocking down the O2 for the bottom phase of the dive.
Of course, the other obvious benefit was limiting narcosis. No one ever died form narcosis, but it caused a lack of motor control and manual dexterity, loss of peripherial vision, distorted the perception of time, altered breathing patterns, and produced an urge to occasionally abandon the plan and wing it, which certainly becomes a judgement issue.
Only a few very experienced divers ventured deep on air in those days, and that was the only thing that prevented more divers from being seriously injured. It was nothing like mainstream diving, and deep air divers had no interest in bringing it to the masses. We knew it was dangerous, and we knew we were on our own. Then again, my first Trimix dive inside the U-boat scared the cap out of me because it was the first time I saw the wreck interior to be as hazardous as it really was.
No one knows for sure, but I agree that Steve Feldman probably had issues with CO2, not O2. At the onset of the incident his bottom time was a modest 13 minutes, where some of us were doing up to 25 on air? It seems the effects of CO2 are not fully understood by modern hyperbaric scientists. Then again, maybe they are all knowing, but they don't want to tell us?
Personally, I like empirical knowledge.
CHeers
JC
BigFame
Contributor
Mr Chatterton first of all it is a pleasure to have an opportunity to chat with you. I enjoyed the book a great deal, and have now loaned it to my dive buddy. I am a new diver (recently certified) and recovering from a work injury and the resulting surgery and so for a while anyway NO diving, reading Shadow Divers and voraciously reading Rock Bottom gas management articles, as well as a plethora of dive forums has helped keep me sane while I recover. So thank you for that.
I did have a question in regards to Shadow Divers. As I said my book is on loan and so I can't give a quote, name a source of the quote, or a page number. But at one point in the book, as I recall, someone refers to Horenburg as still being alive, and when it was asked if you guys could talk to him I believe the answer was something like "Horenburg talks to no one" then the topic is not really touched on again.
The inference of course being that he was alive and had survived the sinking. Later toward the end of the book Rickie visits Guschewski who seems to be friendly and welcoming.
I just wonder whom the original reference to Horenburg was really about. Could it have been a mistake and whoever said he was alive was referring to Guschewski? Maybe the source was mistaken or lying to you guys? I wish I had my book here and could give more accurate info I just don't recall the reports of Horenburgs being alive and unwhilling to talk with you gus as having resolved itself one way or another.
Thanks again. Have a good one....
Jake
I did have a question in regards to Shadow Divers. As I said my book is on loan and so I can't give a quote, name a source of the quote, or a page number. But at one point in the book, as I recall, someone refers to Horenburg as still being alive, and when it was asked if you guys could talk to him I believe the answer was something like "Horenburg talks to no one" then the topic is not really touched on again.
The inference of course being that he was alive and had survived the sinking. Later toward the end of the book Rickie visits Guschewski who seems to be friendly and welcoming.
I just wonder whom the original reference to Horenburg was really about. Could it have been a mistake and whoever said he was alive was referring to Guschewski? Maybe the source was mistaken or lying to you guys? I wish I had my book here and could give more accurate info I just don't recall the reports of Horenburgs being alive and unwhilling to talk with you gus as having resolved itself one way or another.
Thanks again. Have a good one....
Jake
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BF,
I sent the Horenburg name, from the knife, to several sources in both the US and Germany and then sat back and waited for someone to call me with the identity of the wreck. I expected it to take days, but I waited for a couple of weeks and had heard nothing. Finally I got a call from one of my sources, who told me that he had spoken with Horneburg and it was a dead end, he did not remember any knife? When I asked if I could speak with him, I was told that he was not receiving visitors, and would only talk to my source.
Within days, I would find out that the only Horenburg in the U-boat service was Martin Horenburg who was lost off the coast of Africa. I have absolutley no idea if the guy was confused, playing some sort of game, thought he was controling something, or if he really thought he had talked to Horenburg? Today, he denies that he said what he told me, which is par for the course, and why I don't name him?
This should have taught me three lessons. First, question everything that was being told to me. Second, the history of the U-boats is confusing in itself even without misinformation. Finally, there is a community of U-boat nuts out there, and I was going to meet most of them. This particular guy was just the first. As time would go on, I would be told even stranger stories by even wierder guys.
Cheers
JC
I sent the Horenburg name, from the knife, to several sources in both the US and Germany and then sat back and waited for someone to call me with the identity of the wreck. I expected it to take days, but I waited for a couple of weeks and had heard nothing. Finally I got a call from one of my sources, who told me that he had spoken with Horneburg and it was a dead end, he did not remember any knife? When I asked if I could speak with him, I was told that he was not receiving visitors, and would only talk to my source.
Within days, I would find out that the only Horenburg in the U-boat service was Martin Horenburg who was lost off the coast of Africa. I have absolutley no idea if the guy was confused, playing some sort of game, thought he was controling something, or if he really thought he had talked to Horenburg? Today, he denies that he said what he told me, which is par for the course, and why I don't name him?
This should have taught me three lessons. First, question everything that was being told to me. Second, the history of the U-boats is confusing in itself even without misinformation. Finally, there is a community of U-boat nuts out there, and I was going to meet most of them. This particular guy was just the first. As time would go on, I would be told even stranger stories by even wierder guys.
Cheers
JC
bdshort
Contributor
I can't believe I only discovered this thread today! It's been a pleasure reading your responses to the questions posted so far. I read Shadow Divers several months ago, and gave away a copy tonight at a dive club gift exchange. Unfortunately the person who ended up with it already owns it... I was hoping one of the new divers would get it. Oh well! Look forward to following this thread in the future.
Lobstah Slayah
Contributor
I bought this book last week and finished it in under a day. I really enjoyed the mystery and the history. It combined two of my loves, diving and history. It's great to see John and Richie on here. I read through this thread and the other one. Thanks to JC for answering the questions posed so gracefully.:cool2:
Buoyant1
Contributor
Maybe Pete needs to start another thread with those stories! I'm sure they are a hoot!
Btw...I finished reading the new book, great stuff! Didn't you mention a project forthcoming that had more to do with your Britannic dives? Or am I comfusing this with theTitanic book (and the Britannic references within?)
stingray1958
Registered
John,
Thank you for taking the time to talk to us out here in the world. After reading "Shadow Divers" I have a whole different perspective in diving. As recreational dive instructor I'm
thinking about reading 'Shadow Divers' as a requirement for my recreational wreck diviving course (coarse). Also where does the the parts box with the identifying tag to U-869 reside. Best Regaurds, Stingray
Thank you for taking the time to talk to us out here in the world. After reading "Shadow Divers" I have a whole different perspective in diving. As recreational dive instructor I'm
thinking about reading 'Shadow Divers' as a requirement for my recreational wreck diviving course (coarse). Also where does the the parts box with the identifying tag to U-869 reside. Best Regaurds, Stingray
- Messages
- 254
- Reaction score
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- # of dives
- I'm a Fish!
Stingray,
Rob Kurson, who is not even able to swim, is a brilliant writer and Richie and I continue to be flattered by the nice things people have to say to us.
When we went back to see Horst Bredow at the U-boat Archives in Cuxhaven, we offered them all of the evidence we recovered from the site. They had no interest in the "crockery", and were not interested in the O2 cylinder from the Excape Lung (I am not sure why?), but they accepted pretty much everything else and I understand they have taken those items and created a nice display there in the Archives, although I have not seen it.
Cheers
JC
Rob Kurson, who is not even able to swim, is a brilliant writer and Richie and I continue to be flattered by the nice things people have to say to us.
When we went back to see Horst Bredow at the U-boat Archives in Cuxhaven, we offered them all of the evidence we recovered from the site. They had no interest in the "crockery", and were not interested in the O2 cylinder from the Excape Lung (I am not sure why?), but they accepted pretty much everything else and I understand they have taken those items and created a nice display there in the Archives, although I have not seen it.
Cheers
JC
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