Sexism discussion

[nessum]

hey neil, there's an idea in sociology (primarily the constructionalist theory) that we are endlessly filling "roles." This is also a large part of the feminist theory... that we fall into learned gender roles in all parts of our lives.

 

[Hoya97]

Hi,

Okay, never one to pass up a good debate (and fully aware that I'll probably get trashed!)....

I teach a lot of women, and to be honest, about half fall back on their male partner for most everything - setting up equpment, carrying stuff and in general, getting them into the water with the least amount of effort.

Another 1/4 (values are approximate - this shouldn't add up to 100 percent) are intimated by the husband/boyfriend. They aren't allowed to set up their equipment and get chastised if they make a minor mistake.

The remaining quarter either are single or have a partner (not a dominant member) for a significant other.

For this reason, I tend to seperate couples (brother/sister; father/daughter; husband/wife; etc) right after the first SCUBA session. I explain to everyone that I'm fully aware that they intend to make the majority of the dives with the person they are taking the class with, but they should be aware of other people's habits in case they want to go diving with someone else or, more frequently, the partner is on the boat, but discover they can't dive.

You wouldn't BELIEVE the hostility I get when this suggestion is made! I've even had a couple drop out for this one reason and sign up with another instructor so that HE would remain HER partner. WHEW!

Sexism? Probably. Institutionalized? No.

But, I would hazard to say that a lot of it could be avoided if women asserted themselves and understood that while it's a buddy team, every individual is responsible, not only for the buddy, but for themselves as well.

My wife is a diver - and a very, very good one. Do I carry her tanks? Yes. Does she carry other equipment? Yes. We are an equal team - the best possible situation!

Sorry if I stepped on toes. I really go the extra mile to be fair and the very last thing I want is to be accused of being sexist. Just thought I would air my observations to the folks in this forum!

Lee

 

[chickdiver]

mgri once bubbled...
Quick question, are we talking about sexism as in stereotyping of social roles based on gender.

Or, are we taking about gender discrimination?

In my specific experience, the former.

 

[mgri]

CuriousMe once bubbled...


I think it's pretty easy to tell the difference; one comes from a place of power and the other a place of respect. The words spoken might technically be the same, but the meaning is very different.

Very good point, I never thought about it along those lines.

 

[chickdiver]

Now that I am awake enough- I'll give you all a couple of concrete examples from my experience. Being a tech diver and tech instructor, my experiences may be a little different fromt he mainstream. Numerous times I have boarded boats or walked into dive shops (including the one I work for) carrying double 104's only to hear comments like "what's a little thing like you going to do with those big ole tanks?" "Honey, you dont need that much air to go look at the pretty fishes." and my favorite- "You are so much smaller than the boys, I'm sure they wont mind cutting their dives short so you can use smaller tanks."

I used to work in the repair department of my dive shop (I am a factory trained reg tech for several manufacturers)- I have had customers tell me (and other employees) that they wanted a man to do their rebuild.. Questining my competence simply because of my gender.

As a tech instructor- I have had a number of prospective students express disbeleief at my experience and qualifications becuase "Women just don't do that kind of diving."

And in projects I have worked with (and conitnue to work with) I have ahad to be more "perfect" than the men (the majority of the members) to advance to the same level within the group, givin equal skill and participation levels.

Just my .02 worth.

 

[cobaltbabe]

I dive with mostly men and have never experienced being treated as anything but a diver. I carry my own gear as well as other peoples be it men or women. If I am the first back on the boat I help the other divers up with their equipment. Maybe I am lucky but when we are under, I don't want to be treated as anything other then an equal, and if someone were to treat me as anything other then that then I wouldn't be diving with them. Even my LDS treats me as an equal.

 

[Hoya97]

Men who make those comments are about the mental age as their collective shoe size.

I was in the Air Force for 20 years. It didn't take me long to realize that women (in general) are much better repair technicians because 1) they tended to READ the tech journals, and 2) they had more attention to detail.

I would only offer you a hand with the cylinders and ask where you used them. I think a lot of divers are that way too - it's just that as you are insulted (justifibility) you tend to remember the nasty comments, not the nice ones.

I dive off a boat in West Palm Beach, FL. There is a very, very professional female dive master who crews for us. A lot of the instructors in my shop hate her. They always find faults in her ability (faults I don't see) but somehow, they don't occur when I'm around.

Maybe because the thought of a 5'4" pretty girl with better basic skills intimidates them. I donno. But whenever I have the opportunity I ask for her to crew the boat I'm on. Why? Because she is easy on the eyes? Hell No! I have a boatload of just certified divers who need an extra set of eyes watching out for them! I'm a realist, I don't care what form the diver comes in, just so long as she/he/it knows how to dive safely!

Sorry, will climb off my soapbox now.

BTW - looking for a tech instructor to teach wreck pen course - you in FL?

 

[chickdiver]

No offense taken at the soapbox rant . I was, only giving the negative half of the picture there. The comments I referenced come primarily from (oddly enough) OW divers who have no experience in the tech realm, and from people who don't know me. Among the other staff at my shop, I am well respected and thought of. Among the people that I dive with- I have no doubt that those guys (and with one exception, they are all guys) are fully aware of both my strengths and weaknesses, and that they have no doubts as to my abilities. Among TECH DIVERS as a whole- I see few of the types of incidents that I refernced before.

On the whole, this stuff really doesn't bother me, I tend to laugh it off and go on about my business.

I am based in NW Florida, I teach mixed gas and some cave instruction, but I don't teach wreck penetration (sorry!).

 

[Hoya97]

Was at Manatee this past weekend for DUI demo days - first time in a drysuit. Interesting experience.

Do you know Ron Menkie?

 

[Dive Source]

Hoya97 once bubbled...
Hi,


For this reason, I tend to seperate couples (brother/sister; father/daughter; husband/wife; etc) right after the first SCUBA session. I explain to everyone that I'm fully aware that they intend to make the majority of the dives with the person they are taking the class with, but they should be aware of other people's habits in case they want to go diving with someone else or, more frequently, the partner is on the boat, but discover they can't dive.

You wouldn't BELIEVE the hostility I get when this suggestion is made! I've even had a couple drop out for this one reason and sign up with another instructor so that HE would remain HER partner. WHEW!

I absolutely agree with Hoya97 on the separating of couples or what I call dependent relationships. (and they go both ways as far as gender goes)

My reply to them is we issue C-Cards with only one name on them not two and that we are teaching individuals to dive not pairs.

We try and give them some opportunities to Train/dive together during the course but not all the time. After more than one episode of the "Bickerson's" ( i.e. arguing type couples) we had enough.

Brian