Service now or service later ?

[lhpdiver]

I recentlly pullled the Air 2's from our setups and replaced with r390 regs... we are both new instructors and I thought it would be less confusing...

The Air 2's are pretty beat up and probably ready for a service, but let's say I don't need to use them for 2+ years. Am I better off servicing them now and letting them sit on the shelf serviced - or - servicing them in 2 years ?

I guess this question relates to any hardly used backup gear...

DA Aquamaster - you out there ?

 

[Poseidon8118]

I recentlly pullled the Air 2's from our setups and replaced with r390 regs... we are both new instructors and I thought it would be less confusing...

The Air 2's are pretty beat up and probably ready for a service, but let's say I don't need to use them for 2+ years. Am I better off servicing them now and letting them sit on the shelf serviced - or - servicing them in 2 years ?

I guess this question relates to any hardly used backup gear...

DA Aquamaster - you out there ?

Service them just before use...just put them in a box and if you feel the need to use them again...get them service. It makes no sense to service them unless you going to use them. Over time the performance of the regulators will degrade by the constant pressure on the seat…this will increase work of breathing. Dacor use to give you PBD’s with your regulator to defeat this problem. The PBD was a special clip that sits on the front of the regulator and slightly depressed the purge button to relieve pressure off the seat for storage. I wish that more companies would have jump on the PBD bandwagon, but only your older Dacor models had them.

I had a serviced set of regs sit for 7 years and the one problem was hard breathing…so they needed to be serviced again...Hope this helps!

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I agree that shelf life can be tough on the seat of an Air 2. The
constant pressure of the seat being pressed against the orifice in storage probably does more damage than actual use.

If you service them now, you need to install something ithrough the hole in the end of the purge cover to keep the diaphragm and lever slightly depressed. A small piece of old 6 or 7mm wetsuit material (approx 3/4 by 2 inches and folded in half) works well as it will not damage the diaphragm. Then, once you confirm they are totally dry, put them in a zip lock bag to keep dust off them and creepy crawly things out of them.

 

[Marek K]

The constant pressure of the seat being pressed against the orifice in storage probably does more damage than actual use. [...] you need to install something ithrough the hole in the end of the purge cover to keep the diaphragm and lever slightly depressed. A small piece of old 6 or 7mm wetsuit material (approx 3/4 by 2 inches and folded in half) works well as it will not damage the diaphragm.

Hey, I assume that would work with any 2nd stage that was in storage?

I've just gotten a new Mares reg that it turns out I may not be using for a couple of years. Brand new in the box; hasn't even had other hoses attached yet. How long would I be able to store it without having to do a service? I realize the warranty will be voided if I don't do an annual service, but... How long will its "shelf life" be?

I'd release the pressure on the 2nd stage diaphagm, like you say. I remember my first Sherwoods (ca. 1986) also had a plunger on the front to keep the pressure off.

How about the 1st stage HP seat?

--Marek

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Some second stage incorporate either a balance chamber design that relaxes pressure against the seat or make provision for a device to hold the purge button depressed to accomplish the same thing in a low tech (and frankly less problematic) manner. If the second stage does not incorporate either of these featues, then inserting something to keep the purge button depressed is a useful solution.

The design of both diaphragm and piston first stages results in the mainspring keeping the HP seat lifted off the orifice until the reg reaches intermediate pressure. So when stored, the seat well not be in contact with the orifice. With proper o-ring materials and storage environment, a first stage can probably be stored for over a decade with no ill effects.

We found a new old stock Mk 5 that was at least 30 years old and while the second stage needed a thorough overhaul, the first stage despite it's age, still performed within specifications. It got new o-rings anyway as while it still worked after 3 decades in the box, an overhaul seemed prudent.

 

[redacted]

I think I would do the cleaning part of the service before storage, and the parts replacement and adjustment when you are ready to put them back in service. If you can do it yourself, then the cleaning only price is not a problem. If you want to save the cleaning price, you might want to at least cycle it through a couple good FW soakings. The main body is 2 peices of chromed brass screwed together along with the brass orifice screw in innside the 2 sections. These threaded areas tend to build up and hold a bit of corrosion. I'd want to get that cleaned off and the threads coated with a little christolub before they went into storage.

This is something you could do yourself as it only requires partial disassembly. You don't have to mess with the lever and poppet assy. If you want to try it yourself, PM me with an email address that will take an attachment and I can send you the schematic. No special tools required. You remove the cover (can be a little challenging), diaphram ring & diaphram from one end and the C-clip from the other and the main body simpley pressed out. The 2 parts unscrew and an allen wrench is then used to unscrew the orifice. All the threaded areas are then accessible and can be cleaned in a vinegar solution, rinsed and neutralized, lubed and reassembled.

 

[lhpdiver]

Thanks awap.

This is a learning experience already. Now that I have the cover and diaphragm off and I can see what happens when the buttons are depressed, it is clear why it was so hard to "orally inflate" the bcd. Man - unless you really squeeze that button you are blowing air into the ocean.

There is just a hint of build-up on the housing.

So guys - Here's the next batch of questions;

- in principal if I were to understand the Air/2 would I fundamentally understand most any scubapro second stage ?
- I came across scubatools.com and noticed they had tools for the Air/2. Looks like they would run about $70 or so. (Bullet Kit/Spider Tool/Seat Slider/Select Set). If the knowlwdge gained from working on this retired Air/2 would at least partially transfer to my mk25/s600 setups, I'd be willing to make the investment.
- for someone who knows virtually nothing about hardware, would the "Regualtor savy" book from that site be of any value ?

Thanks

 

[redacted]

Thanks awap.

This is a learning experience already. Now that I have the cover and diaphragm off and I can see what happens when the buttons are depressed, it is clear why it was so hard to "orally inflate" the bcd. Man - unless you really squeeze that button you are blowing air into the ocean.

There is just a hint of build-up on the housing.

So guys - Here's the next batch of questions;

- in principal if I were to understand the Air/2 would I fundamentally understand most any scubapro second stage ?
- I came across scubatools.com and noticed they had tools for the Air/2. Looks like they would run about $70 or so. (Bullet Kit/Spider Tool/Seat Slider/Select Set). If the knowlwdge gained from working on this retired Air/2 would at least partially transfer to my mk25/s600 setups, I'd be willing to make the investment.
- for someone who knows virtually nothing about hardware, would the "Regualtor savy" book from that site be of any value ?

Thanks

I have Oxyhackers book which I believe is more suited to the DIYer. Air2 is similar to an R190. S600 is quite a different design. But they share an orifice, LP seat and spring to hold the air back and a lever activated by a diaphram to let it go. I found most of the special tools to be unecessary except as time savers. For the Mk25/S600, the only special tool I bought was the Mk20/25 assembly tool. For the Air2, I bought none of the special tools but did fashion something to help assemble the poppet mech in the housing. Much of the basic tools can be home made like a yoke nut socket and a pin spanner. More fun that way too.

Harlows book is at http://www.airspeedpress.com/

Your hooked and it's easy

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The Airspeed press book is perhaps more of an "insert tab A in slot B" type of how to manual and is proibably better for step by step instructions for various regulators. But I prefer the greater emphasis on theory contained in Regulator Savvy.

For SP reg owners the choice is a no brainer. The Regulator Savvy book was written by Pete Wolfinger (owner of Peterbuilt tools) and he used to be the head guru in charge of service and tech training at Scubapro and in that capacity he wrote their tech manuals and training materials. He really knows his stuff. Regulator Savvy covers the theory of all types of regulators, and gives you an excellent background in reg theory, repair, testing, adjustment, etc and does it with drawings that are literally right out of SP's tech manuals.


For tools, the Air 2 spider makes it easier, but it is not essential. For SP regs in general, you will need a multitool, a 1" yoke nut socket (if you have yoke regs - a 6mm long reach allen socket if you have DIN regs), a suitable torque wrench, an inline adjuster with IP gauge, a set of o-ring picks, some christolube and some basic hand tools (suitably cleaned and degreased for O2 use). There are also special first stage tools that make assembling the first stages much easier and these are relatively inexpensive and worth the money.

You can do it without the right tools, but it is harder and much more time consuming.

 

[lhpdiver]

Ok so in the time that has transpired I have collected the 2 AirSpeedPress books as well at the Regulator Savy book and tools. Man that Peter Built stuff is really first class stuff (although it seems to reek of cigar smoke).

I've got my Air/2 disassembled to pieces except for the housing assembly, which I guess my new spider tool will help me put back together.

Next I'll soak everything in detergent, acid wash the metal parts only and pick (as needed) with toothpick at remaining deposits.

Thank you.