Serious concerns in Belize

[Edward3c]

Most any other dive site in the Belizian Cayes is more interesting than the vaunted Blue Hole.

Couldn’t agree more.

Dived it in 1979 when I first learned, no way as interesting as Lighthouse Caye, which we were staying on.

I’ve had the opportunity to dive it 5 times since, but declined each time.

 

[peterbj7]

Many of us who are familiar with Belize dive ops and the blue hole have long known of their lack of safety considerations on this dive

That's not strictly true. There is a dearth of primary safety, deciding who can go and who can't based on qualifications and experience, but secondary safety is now pretty good in that DMs are very aware of what is going on around them. The statistics speak for themselves - an accident in the Blue Hole that is not simply a personal health issue for the diver concerned (eg. a heart attack) is now almost unheard of. The one area that IMO desperately needs improvement is for staff to carry adequate extra air down to the bottom (of the dive) with them, rather than simply relying on the tanks hanging below the boat. But again - present practice has in fact proved adequate.

You can find report after report of under qualified divers diving beyond their abilities and training with dive operators at the blue hole

I haven't seen those reports, but it's probably fair to say that almost every diver who goes on that dive is underqualified for it. The dive certainly goes beyond the limits most divers will have been trained for. How much that is the failure of the dive operator and how much is down to the individual diver is a moot point. If the PADI book (for example) were to be applied there would be no dive excursions to the BH, save perhaps the odd technical trip.

A lot of this must come down to the individual diver. Anyone can buy a gas oven, but it's up to the individual to decide whether to stick his head in it. There is a perception, which in my experience lies particularly amongst warm water divers from the USA, that safety is a matter for the dive operator. Too many people think that if they're allowed to do it then they must. Diving is in essence a solitary activity, it is must be up to the individual diver to make his own decisions concerning his own safety. It is the responsibility of the operator to provide a safe framework, with competent in-water staff, adequate spare air supplies and an appropriate overall timescale. Beyond that it must be down to the diver. If a particular diver does not feel comfortable working within these constraints he always has the option of not going. What I suggested above, of undertaking a series of "warm up" dives on the barrier reef where there is always a bottom just below you, costs money and most people don't want to do that. Fair enough, but that does mean that there will be an awful lot of new experience once you get into the Hole. Some people will cope with that just fine, others won't.

 

[Mike]

That's not strictly true. There is a dearth of primary safety, deciding who can go and who can't based on qualifications and experience, but secondary safety is now pretty good in that DMs are very aware of what is going on around them. The statistics speak for themselves - an accident in the Blue Hole that is not simply a personal health issue for the diver concerned (eg. a heart attack) is now almost unheard of. The one area that IMO desperately needs improvement is for staff to carry adequate extra air down to the bottom (of the dive) with them, rather than simply relying on the tanks hanging below the boat. But again - present practice has in fact proved adequate.


I haven't seen those reports, but it's probably fair to say that almost every diver who goes on that dive is underqualified for it. The dive certainly goes beyond the limits most divers will have been trained for. How much that is the failure of the dive operator and how much is down to the individual diver is a moot point. If the PADI book (for example) were to be applied there would be no dive excursions to the BH, save perhaps the odd technical trip.

A lot of this must come down to the individual diver. Anyone can buy a gas oven, but it's up to the individual to decide whether to stick his head in it. There is a perception, which in my experience lies particularly amongst warm water divers from the USA, that safety is a matter for the dive operator. Too many people think that if they're allowed to do it then they must. Diving is in essence a solitary activity, it is must be up to the individual diver to make his own decisions concerning his own safety. It is the responsibility of the operator to provide a safe framework, with competent in-water staff, adequate spare air supplies and an appropriate overall timescale. Beyond that it must be down to the diver. If a particular diver does not feel comfortable working within these constraints he always has the option of not going. What I suggested above, of undertaking a series of "warm up" dives on the barrier reef where there is always a bottom just below you, costs money and most people don't want to do that. Fair enough, but that does mean that there will be an awful lot of new experience once you get into the Hole. Some people will cope with that just fine, others won't.

If you're a PADI shop then simply follow the PADI guidelines.

OW - let them dive the BH to 60 ft.
AOW - let them dive to 100 ft.
AOW with deep specialty let them dive to 130 ft
AOW with enough experience let them dive to 130ft.

Why need it be more difficult than that?

Anybody with DAN insurance with an OW cert diving to 130 at the BH as the dive plan and needs a chamber ride will possibly be paying DAN back for it.

 

[beaverdivers]

My last dive at "The Blue Hole" with our group was spectacular. Everyone was within their depth limit and had the proper amount of gas to have an enjoyable dive.

This type of experience is the exact reason why I have been leading groups for so many years.

" The Blue Hole " can be done properly, you just need to have the right group of divers.

 

[peterbj7]

If you're a PADI shop then simply follow the PADI guidelines.

OW - let them dive the BH to 60 ft.
AOW - let them dive to 100 ft.
AOW with deep specialty let them dive to 130 ft
AOW with enough experience let them dive to 130ft.

Why need it be more difficult than that?

Anybody with DAN insurance with an OW cert diving to 130 at the BH as the dive plan and needs a chamber ride will possibly be paying DAN back for it.

Would it were so simple.

 

[drrich2]

Mike:

I think the magic words from your post are:

...let them...

It gets to the heart of a question I don't have an answer for. To what extent should a dive op. 'police' peoples' dives (e.g.: dictate to them the maximum depth they can go, what PSI they must be back on the boat with or be benched from diving the rest of the day, whether they can dive solo or not, etc...)?

It's a question that seems to get different answers in different threads; everything from imposing limits like you described, all the way to the view that dive op.s are just a water shuttle bus to & from the dive site.

With the added complications that a lot of charter boat trips are on a fairly tight schedule, and doing an individualized review of everybody's logbook (if they have them, and deciding what to take their word for) and for that matter 'evaluation dives' beforehand isn't practical. We've had people on the forum gripe that the rec. limit is 130 feet, staying shallower for awhile after OW is a recommendation, not a law, and a number of people gripe when, despite extensive experience, they, having only an OW cert., might be told not to dive over 60 feet with a charter op. due to the op.'s perceived liability issues.

All that weighed against the fact (as someone else alluded to) that a number of fairly new vacation divers are used to an excursions culture where professional guides never invite you to do something particularly dangerous to the general public.

Richard.

 

[Mike]

Would it were so simple.

It's simple enough for some dive ops in Belize. There are also dive ops in Belize who do impose depth restrictions at the blue hole, some how they manage.

All over the world dive ops impose a variety of restrictions and require a laundry list of different qualifications on clients, there are many even with equipment requirements. There are plenty who won't and don't and it's no secret why they do so. $

Someone replied that they'd never heard of any problems at the blue hole. A simple search of "blue hole" on scubaboard reveals all kinds of problems that have occured. There are tons of stories of cluster f**k dives at the blue hole and even deaths.

 

[weitodive]

If you want to do it and don't want her to go too deep, then hire a second divemaster. Have the Divemaster stay with your daughter at the depth you set. It will be more expensive but it's your daughters safety.

 

[lsorenson]

My question is this... What are they diving with alu80's or steel 100's/120's... To me, doing 130' on an alu80 is do able for some but incredibility dangerous for others... I would also prefer to see a pony between buddy teams if the attempt is down to 130' on 80's. I would go down to 130' with a buddy but I would not take my wife down to 130 without a pony available; actually, not real sure she would even go down to 130'...

Just my opinion and nothing more...

---------- Post Merged at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 09:38 PM ----------

And to the original question... If they allow her to dive, fine... Stop when you hit the number you want to stop at!!! What, they surly will not grab you and begin to pull you down... Besides, I believe the golden rule is that you can call your dive at any time...!!! I can not even fathom an operation insisting everyone in the group must go to 130! What about the vacation diver... they would suck down an alu80 in no time flat!!!

lee

 

[lthomas132]

It's simple enough for some dive ops in Belize. There are also dive ops in Belize who do impose depth restrictions at the blue hole, some how they manage.

All over the world dive ops impose a variety of restrictions and require a laundry list of different qualifications on clients, there are many even with equipment requirements. There are plenty who won't and don't and it's no secret why they do so. $

Someone replied that they'd never heard of any problems at the blue hole. A simple search of "blue hole" on scubaboard reveals all kinds of problems that have occured. There are tons of stories of cluster f**k dives at the blue hole and even deaths.

On my first dive trip to SP I witnessed a diver being carried from the pier by Sun Breeze Hotel. They loaded her on a gurney on a golf cart then off to the chamber. They had been to the BH. They had one bottle of oxygen, lasted one hour on a two hour trip back. She was medivac'd out that night by helicopter and later died. I hope that I never see someone in the bends like that again.