Semidry wetsuit for warmer water?

[tbone1004]

how much weight do you need to wear with a 7mm wetsuit and 2 al80's? You need at least 8 for the tanks, and the average 7mm wetsuit is between 15-25lbs positive at the surface *semidry's usually more*, so at best you're 25lbs, likely closer to 30lbs. So that's 25-30lbs of lead you have to carry on land to sink you plus the tanks for fresh water. If he's doing salty stuff it will be even more. Over half of which has to be switched to the wing at depth due to compression. 3mm or drysuit doesn't have the buoyancy swing, thus better/smarter/safer for deep diving, combined with better comfort. You still haven't given a reason why you think a thick wetsuit/semidry is better than a heater or a drysuit other than "because you've done it"

 

[gearhound]

have zero idea what you're talking about. there's a lot of that going around here lately...

Indeed there is...people having zero idea what they're talking about...but that's the internet. Anyway, I think I've directly answered the OP's original question without getting sidetracked. There's a few of you not answering the question at all. It's like when someone asks where's the best place to get a burger, and you guys are answering he needs to eat chicken...or he'll die! The OP asked about semi-dry wetsuits, you guys are saying he needs to get a drysuit. I'm pretty sure that's not what he asked. And he's a Alberta diver. I'm assuming that if he's diving locally (based on the fact that he's a cave diver looking at deco dives, he's probably not just a vacation diver), then the OP is quite familiar with drysuits. He's probably like us, finds it much easier to travel with a wetsuit than dry.

And to the poster that loses 20+lbs of buoyancy from compression, you must be a fat bastard! Get into the gym! I wear 4 to 6 pounds when I wear my Neotek to dive the caves in Mexico (the OP's question in the exact environment that he was asking about). Most of the caves there are relatively shallow, but I've been to depth at the Pit and the Blue Abyss numerous times. Lived to tell about it too.

If you're not comfortable diving wet, then don't dive wet. But check out any of the videos of Steve Bogaerts diving in Mexico. I'll put him in the "expert" category. He's diving a wetsuit.

 

[tbone1004]

how do you wear 6lbs with a 8mm semidry, and a pair of AL80's? That doesn't make sense.... I'm not fat, I don't wear any lead with a 5mm provided I'm diving neutral tanks, but with aluminums I have to wear lead to offset that. I just don't see how you have a wetsuit that is 20lbs positive and only have to wear 6lbs when you're diving aluminum bottles, something is wrong with the math on that. If you're diving steels I get it, but not with aluminum tanks that are 4lbs positive each. Also note that my first response didn't mention drysuits and was something that is smaller and lighter than a big semidry and can also be used with a drysuit if you're diving up north, and snowblowing and various other activities that make it much more versatile... I was advocating to stay wet, just not with a bunch of neoprene on.

 

[Bennno]

how much weight do you need to wear with a 7mm wetsuit and 2 al80's? You need at least 8 for the tanks, and the average 7mm wetsuit is between 15-25lbs positive at the surface *semidry's usually more*, so at best you're 25lbs, likely closer to 30lbs. So that's 25-30lbs of lead you have to carry on land to sink you plus the tanks for fresh water. If he's doing salty stuff it will be even more. Over half of which has to be switched to the wing at depth due to compression. 3mm or drysuit doesn't have the buoyancy swing, thus better/smarter/safer for deep diving, combined with better comfort. You still haven't given a reason why you think a thick wetsuit/semidry is better than a heater or a drysuit other than "because you've done it"

Wow, so you don't read the replies. I already told you how much weight I need for 7mm plus 2mm vest and 2 80s. I don't even need 30lbs in a crush neo drysuit in saltwater in winter.
All I said was that the OP could just get a normal cheap 7mm suit and would be fine... and I let you drag me into this pointless discussion. Read gearhounds post.

And to the poster that loses 20+lbs of buoyancy from compression, you must be a fat bastard! Get into the gym! I wear 4 to 6 pounds when I wear my Neotek to dive the caves in Mexico (the OP's question in the exact environment that he was asking about).

Lol, I agree but according to tbones 'simple physics' that's not possible.

---------- Post added June 30th, 2015 at 09:53 PM ----------

how do you wear 6lbs with a 8mm semidry, and a pair of AL80's? That doesn't make sense.... I'm not fat, I don't wear any lead with a 5mm provided I'm diving neutral tanks, but with aluminums I have to wear lead to offset that. I just don't see how you have a wetsuit that is 20lbs positive and only have to wear 6lbs when you're diving aluminum bottles, something is wrong with the math on that. If you're diving steels I get it, but not with aluminum tanks that are 4lbs positive each. Also note that my first response didn't mention drysuits and was something that is smaller and lighter than a big semidry and can also be used with a drysuit if you're diving up north, and snowblowing and various other activities that make it much more versatile... I was advocating to stay wet, just not with a bunch of neoprene on.

Here is a crazy idea: Go diving and try it out.

 

[LiteHedded]

Indeed there is...people having zero idea what they're talking about...but that's the internet. Anyway, I think I've directly answered the OP's original question without getting sidetracked. There's a few of you not answering the question at all. It's like when someone asks where's the best place to get a burger, and you guys are answering he needs to eat chicken...or he'll die! The OP asked about semi-dry wetsuits, you guys are saying he needs to get a drysuit. I'm pretty sure that's not what he asked. And he's a Alberta diver. I'm assuming that if he's diving locally (based on the fact that he's a cave diver looking at deco dives, he's probably not just a vacation diver), then the OP is quite familiar with drysuits. He's probably like us, finds it much easier to travel with a wetsuit than dry.

And to the poster that loses 20+lbs of buoyancy from compression, you must be a fat bastard! Get into the gym! I wear 4 to 6 pounds when I wear my Neotek to dive the caves in Mexico (the OP's question in the exact environment that he was asking about). Most of the caves there are relatively shallow, but I've been to depth at the Pit and the Blue Abyss numerous times. Lived to tell about it too.

If you're not comfortable diving wet, then don't dive wet. But check out any of the videos of Steve Bogaerts diving in Mexico. I'll put him in the "expert" category. He's diving a wetsuit.

i never said that.
i dove a semidry wetsuit for years

 

[ucfdiver]

so explain this if they are so wrong. How is diving a rig that is going to become very unbalanced at depth by losing 20+lbs of buoyancy safe or smart when you have an alternative that either does not change at all with depth, or changes very little with depth?

Also how does their opinions on drygloves, CCR, sidemount, etc have any bearing on a simple physics issue regarding deep diving and wetsuits?

1) Have you ever been cave diving in Mexico?
2) Have you ever taken a GUE class?
3) If the answer to either of the above questions is No, why are you giving GUE advice on cave diving in Mexico?

 

[gearhound]

how do you wear 6lbs with a 8mm semidry, and a pair of AL80's? That doesn't make sense.... I'm not fat, I don't wear any lead with a 5mm provided I'm diving neutral tanks, but with aluminums I have to wear lead to offset that. I just don't see how you have a wetsuit that is 20lbs positive and only have to wear 6lbs when you're diving aluminum bottles, something is wrong with the math on that.

Dude, I'm not lying. I can send videos if you want proof. The last trip, 3 of us had Neoteks. sidemount, al80s, stages, deco, etc. I've had one since they first came out. A pinnacle 7mm Arctic before that.

 

[tbone1004]

how is that relevant? I was just indicating that the recommendation is not to dive terribly deep in a thick wetsuit if you can help it, where the information came from has no bearing on having taken a gue class or not because it applies to all diving, not just GUE/DIR. Why can't that just be a good general recommendation that happens to have been published 10+ years ago in a GUE book? Are you implying that GUE has a monopoly on everything they publish and no other training agency can advocate it and quote from them? Or that a thick wetsuit for warmth doesn't make sense when you're going deep due to compression and that something that provides the same thermal protection regardless of depth is better?

 

[ucfdiver]

1. not relevant
2. also not relevant
3. because I wasn't giving GUE advice. All I was saying was that they do not advocate diving with a thick wetsuit when diving deep for a damn good reason when I was asked where I got that information from, which is in the DIR Fundamentals book, and is applicable to all diving, has literally nothing to do with GUE or DIR

So you're giving advice based on something you read in a study aid for a class that you've never taken, and applying that to an environment you've never been diving in.

Mexico is at most 60-70ft deep in saltwater passages, excluding a few deep sites which tourists don't really visit anyways. A wet suit isn't losing 20-30lbs of lift at 2ATAs. A 7mm suit will be PLENTY warm enough in those depth ranges, we're not talking Eagles Nest here, I doubt the diver will even notice the loss of thermal insulation at all. Zero Gravity teaches cave courses to people in 5mm wet suits all the time.

GUE's own gear setup page shows divers doing tech dives in wetsuits
https://www.globalunderwaterexplorers.org/equipment/config

 

[tbone1004]

ok, so why not just get a good 5mm hooded vest and call it good? My point was if he's happy with his 3mm and is concerned about getting chilly on deco, why invest in heavy wetsuit which is less comfortable when there are better options out there? Drysuit doesn't make sense, but I just still don't see any point in a semidry. If you can't do a dive in a 5mm+hooded vest, go straight to a drysuit, but if you can do it in a thin wetsuit, then that makes the most sense

5mm Merino Hooded Vest - Dive Right in Scuba
grab that for $100 and you'll be about as warm for those types of dives, or take the same money and get something more versatile than a semidry?