Seaway Aqua Craft Bangstick and Ammo
- Thread starter wrkdvrjim
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Shotmaster
Contributor
There is no projectile in the Seaway cartridge like the current powerheads, it uses a high pressure gas jet. Compared to current Bangstick versions which use conventional pistol and rifle cartridges which do not develop significant velocity or a lot of high pressure gas. Pistol and rifle cartridges use powder that is slow burning designed to burn under high pressure conditions as the bullet is constrained in the chamber and continues to burn as the bullet travels down the bore of a firearm. While they do work, their efficiency is severely diminished by the slow burning gun powdered used. The Seaway Bangstick on the other hand uses brass cases filled with very fast burning powder and these cases are crimped together making a small pressure vessel, when the Seaway cartridge is detonated, pressure increases rapidly from the expanding gas which is constrained inside the pressure vessel until the gas pressure exceeds what the case can withstand and ruptures violently exiting out the the muzzle of the Seaway towards the target. Lol, this is really just a small highly directional bomb. It is very effective given that it is a contact shot and delivers a large volume of rapidly expanding high pressure gas jet into soft tissue.
I am searching for one buy or to copy, and I have been reloading ammunition for a long time and can make these cartridges. The reason for using .30 cal brass with no primer hole was to keep the brass thickness the same and a primer hole would have vented the gas too quickly to build the pressure needed. The .38 brass with the primer, placed in the chamber end was constrained against the firing pin during the pressure build up. From talking with some old PJs who used these, said they cut a shark in two. Which is what I am looking for after discovering the dismal performance of a 5.56 powerhead on a large Bull Shark who swam off and came back for more punishment.
I am searching for one buy or to copy, and I have been reloading ammunition for a long time and can make these cartridges. The reason for using .30 cal brass with no primer hole was to keep the brass thickness the same and a primer hole would have vented the gas too quickly to build the pressure needed. The .38 brass with the primer, placed in the chamber end was constrained against the firing pin during the pressure build up. From talking with some old PJs who used these, said they cut a shark in two. Which is what I am looking for after discovering the dismal performance of a 5.56 powerhead on a large Bull Shark who swam off and came back for more punishment.
Rred
Contributor
Shotmaster-
What you say largely agrees with the little I have been able to find or research, including the patent drawings. But maybe you could shed a little more light? The photos that I see clearly have the primer pocket machined into the 30-30 cartridge base. And there's reference to these being "partly manufactured" cartridges. So, is the big secret that the primer pocket has been machined, but the final hole in that not put through? So it really is sealed, despite a primer pocket being made? (And given that there's a primer in the .38 end of things, one might wonder if a primer couldn't be inserted in a spent 30-30 cartridge just as successfully, not requiring chasing down partly manufactured ones.)
Then there's one niggling thing. I would have thought it was physically impossible to fit the business end of a .38 caliber cartridge into a .30 caliber cartridge, which is what the 30-30 IS. So how's that magic work?? What is missing from that picture?
So many things "appear" to be so simple, but if it was easy...(G)...
Marketing tests for a new bigger 1/3 pound hamburger recently led the chain not to market it. Consumers said "four is bigger than three, so the 1/4 pound burger must be larger than the 1/3 pounder." Honest.
38 is less than 30?
And then there's someone I was talking to, who just sold what he swears was a genuine Seaway. Except, he's certain they came in different sizes up to 12 gauge, and used standard shells. Alternate reality?? Or did Seaway also manufacture conventional bangsticks perhaps?
What you say largely agrees with the little I have been able to find or research, including the patent drawings. But maybe you could shed a little more light? The photos that I see clearly have the primer pocket machined into the 30-30 cartridge base. And there's reference to these being "partly manufactured" cartridges. So, is the big secret that the primer pocket has been machined, but the final hole in that not put through? So it really is sealed, despite a primer pocket being made? (And given that there's a primer in the .38 end of things, one might wonder if a primer couldn't be inserted in a spent 30-30 cartridge just as successfully, not requiring chasing down partly manufactured ones.)
Then there's one niggling thing. I would have thought it was physically impossible to fit the business end of a .38 caliber cartridge into a .30 caliber cartridge, which is what the 30-30 IS. So how's that magic work?? What is missing from that picture?
So many things "appear" to be so simple, but if it was easy...(G)...
Marketing tests for a new bigger 1/3 pound hamburger recently led the chain not to market it. Consumers said "four is bigger than three, so the 1/4 pound burger must be larger than the 1/3 pounder." Honest.
38 is less than 30?
And then there's someone I was talking to, who just sold what he swears was a genuine Seaway. Except, he's certain they came in different sizes up to 12 gauge, and used standard shells. Alternate reality?? Or did Seaway also manufacture conventional bangsticks perhaps?
Shotmaster
Contributor
The Seaway was called the "Fast Load" as it was inserted from from the muzzle and has three internal protrusions that friction grip the cartridge. It also had a plastic clip safety that prevented accidental discharge so it could be loaded and when needed the plastic clip was pushed off so it would slide in to engage the firing pin. Upon discharge the spent cartridge self ejected and another cartridge could be quickly reloaded.
I'm not aware of any other calibers.
The 30-30 brass was pulled from the manufacturing line before the primer flash hole was punched. I would just braze the hole shut or use epoxy if I used regular brass. They also machined grooves where the headstamp is normally embossed to provide some bite on the target and prevent skidding.
To make the .38 brass fit into the mouth of the .30 cal brass requires a swage die to enlarge it to slightly larger than the .358 size of the .38 brass. Once inserted it would be swaged and crimped closed around the .38 brass using a regular .30 cal sizing/crimping die. You could also use 9mm brass and with the bevel around the base it would give a much stronger crimp. If I decide to make these, I'm going to use .308 cases and 9mm cases. I have plenty of them and the brass is stronger than the 30-30/38 combo and should build higher pressures with relatively similar case capacity. All of this is easy to do on a single stage reloading press.
I got to see and handle a Seaway and the cartridges back in the 70's. I didn't see it discharged but I have talked to divers who used it on sharks.
I'm not aware of any other calibers.
The 30-30 brass was pulled from the manufacturing line before the primer flash hole was punched. I would just braze the hole shut or use epoxy if I used regular brass. They also machined grooves where the headstamp is normally embossed to provide some bite on the target and prevent skidding.
To make the .38 brass fit into the mouth of the .30 cal brass requires a swage die to enlarge it to slightly larger than the .358 size of the .38 brass. Once inserted it would be swaged and crimped closed around the .38 brass using a regular .30 cal sizing/crimping die. You could also use 9mm brass and with the bevel around the base it would give a much stronger crimp. If I decide to make these, I'm going to use .308 cases and 9mm cases. I have plenty of them and the brass is stronger than the 30-30/38 combo and should build higher pressures with relatively similar case capacity. All of this is easy to do on a single stage reloading press.
I got to see and handle a Seaway and the cartridges back in the 70's. I didn't see it discharged but I have talked to divers who used it on sharks.
Shotmaster
Contributor
Enlarging case mouths is done all the time. Look up what they have done with the 5.56mm, they open it up and put a .308 bullet, it's called the 300 Blackout. There are several others.
Rred
Contributor
"the .30 cal brass requires a swage die to enlarge it to slightly larger than"
Oh duh. Of course. And unless I misread it, they cleverly just didn't mention that in the patent application.
"You say SHARK, I say GRENADE!"
Please keep us posted, I consider this to be a conservation project. Conserving MY species.
Oh duh. Of course. And unless I misread it, they cleverly just didn't mention that in the patent application.
"You say SHARK, I say GRENADE!"
Please keep us posted, I consider this to be a conservation project. Conserving MY species.
Shotmaster
Contributor
Can you post the patent? I would like to see it.
I consider myself a conservationist also! I have an aversion to the guy in the gray suit.
I consider myself a conservationist also! I have an aversion to the guy in the gray suit.
Rred
Contributor
I've only got a local copy of the web pages, didn't save the URL. But if you search for "United States Patent 4,058,062" that should bring up the original pages.
Shotmaster
Contributor
I found the patent on the ammo and for the Bangstick body.
The .38 cartridge is shortened and has a bevel cut near the rim. The 9 mm would be almost an exact replication of this modified .38'case without the work. All you would need is a set of .38/9mm dies to expand the .30 cal case and then crimp it closed. And then braze the primer vent hole closed on the . 30 cal case. I think some 40 grit wet/dry sandpaper glued to the end with some gorilla glue would give plenty of grip on angled shots.
The stainless steel body looks easy to machine.
I think I'm going to make some of these.
The .38 cartridge is shortened and has a bevel cut near the rim. The 9 mm would be almost an exact replication of this modified .38'case without the work. All you would need is a set of .38/9mm dies to expand the .30 cal case and then crimp it closed. And then braze the primer vent hole closed on the . 30 cal case. I think some 40 grit wet/dry sandpaper glued to the end with some gorilla glue would give plenty of grip on angled shots.
The stainless steel body looks easy to machine.
I think I'm going to make some of these.
Rred
Contributor
Forget the sandpaper. Did you ever need to make "grippy" gloves? Just dip the end of the cartridge in your choice of glue, or put on a drop of crazy glue. Then dip/sprinkle with clean coarse sand. Voila, instant grip, no sandpaper to get in the middle of things.
And of course, braze the primer hole closed before filling and assembling.(G)
There's a chance that they used 30-30 cases because a 308 would be unnecessarily powerful. Excess concussion for the user, could be a bad thing. Hard to tell from the stories you hear, just how much is enough.
So, when can we expect the YouTube videos on sides of beef?
And of course, braze the primer hole closed before filling and assembling.(G)
There's a chance that they used 30-30 cases because a 308 would be unnecessarily powerful. Excess concussion for the user, could be a bad thing. Hard to tell from the stories you hear, just how much is enough.
So, when can we expect the YouTube videos on sides of beef?
