Sea World.... so much fun

[wheezy]

I agree with Mario for the most part. The shows did make me think, but then again the relationship of these animals and the trainers is amazing. How do you know that they are not having fun???? Anyhow, it was watching the animals in the tank that was the most fun.... and watching the children learn about them and how excited they got. Another one of the best moments is watching the kids at the ray pond (where you can pet the rays) sooo funny watching kids feel a ray and giggle.

I would have to say that Sea World definately does more good than bad, without a doubt in my mind. I will surely go back again and again if for nothing else just to view the Orca's.

 

[svs3]

I wish that aquariums, zoos, and other such places really did alot to alter visitors views of the world and man's place in it and for a very few it does. However, for the most part the excitment of a visit to a zoo or aquarium fades very quickly, especially when one confronts such realities as deforestation, industrial pollution, 1st world energy consumption, and the changes that are needed to make our 1st world economies "sustainable" because whatever anyone says these changes would require profound and widespead alteration in our behavior. Most people are simply way too comfortable in their current lifestyle to give it up even though I believe not to do so means that our grandchildren and great-grandchildren will suffer great hardship because of it. Something to think about the next you get in the car to drive 2 blocks to get a Slurpee or a Big Mac.

Another point, one should be very careful when subscribing human emtions to animals. I do believe that animals have emotions, souls (and are, in the big picture, of no lesser or greater "value" than person) but don't experience emotion like us. There are essential differences with regard to intelligence, sentience, etc. So while animals can certainly be happy or sad, it is a mistake, IMHO, think in terms of a one to one corralation between a person and a chimp or orca. So the question is not whether or not they are "having fun" be if their are allowed to live their lives in a natural and unmolested way in the same way a person wants to live his or her life in a natural and unmolested way. Which they are not at a zoo or aquarium. Think about it this way we humans have a place where all one's basic needs are "cared" for (ie 3 squares a day, a roof over one's head, clothes, stc.) but one loses all privacy, has no freedom, and loses most of thier most basic rights - it is called prison. And, yes, prisoners can "have fun" (just don't drop the soap ) but are they happy? For the most part, I think not.

But as Dennis Miller says: "I could be wrong."

Peace and sorry for the rant,
Sam

P.S. I sorry if this sounds strident that was not my intention. Nor is it my intention to imply that zookeepers or aquariumkeepers(?) are somehow evil or sadistic people; quite the opposite, they are for the most part active and enthuastic conservationists and environmentalists who are very aware of the shortcoming of these institutions and hope that what good they can and do do will in the long run outweigh the negatives of such institutions, much like Mario and wheezy.

 

[wheezy]

THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE MEAN.... just more to think about

Natural and "unmolested" way. Like when you go to work, to work pretty much the entire day for way less than your boss and way way less than his boss, where a young whipper snapper like myself could get dropped in slightly above you in the "FOOD CHAIN" because I went to a slightly better school and fire you because, well just because.

NATURAL and UNMOLESTED... , there really is NO SUCH THING. Wether it's pollution, or something like El Nino, or EXTINCTON. Life is harsh and that's all there is too it. If I were an Orca, heck why not live at Sea World, all the best you can eats, clean water and the sanctity of knowing my young would survive.

I get your point though and it is valid, HOWEVER... Science demands things like ZOO's and aquariums to study and further understand the balance of nature and how to further prevent ecological losses.

KEEP AN OPEN MIND, you to may someday be in a "human tank" on the planet Ziros as an endangerd species

 

[JustJules]

As I mentioned in a previous post, my sister works at Sea World of Florida. So I have a different viewpoint on the zoos/aquariums issue, knowing a lot of people involved in the industry and knowing things from behind the scenes (both good and bad) the many people would never hear.

Sam, I think you have a point about the people involved in these institutions. They're people who love the animals more than anything, people who dreamed their whole lives of training whales, working with dolphins, or interacting with penguins. I happen to think that those people are often exploited and underpaid by the big corporations who own the parks, but there's no question that the trainers and the animal care/education staff are good folks.

Is living in captivity the best life for these creatures? In many ways, probably not. They are exposed to all sorts of things that they wouldn't have to be in their natural environment that can be harmful (like leaves blowing into their enclosures, not exactly something in their regular diet), and they don't get to go where they please.

On the other hand, they can't be put back into their natural environment. Look at how much time, effort, and money was put into the rehabilitation of Keiko, the "Free Willy" whale. They finally decided that he simply won't adapt. Somewhere back in the past, the decision was made to take whales into captivity. Right or wrong, you can't take that decision back. At least having these creatures in a place where people can appreciate them, where they can raise awareness of their free cousins, means that they're doing some good.

I have taken friends visiting from out of town to Sea World, and they are amazed at the size of a whale. They come away from the experience with a new appreciation of them. Like the woman at the museum of nautral history in New York who said to me while looking at a stuffed zebra, "I thought they were the size of a dog!", they are more aware of the creatures around them from having seen them in person.

I'm not going to take a stand on the "right or wrong" of zoos and aquariums. All I can do is say that I do see that there are some good things about them that I'd rather focus on than the bad ones.

Julie

 

[wheezy]

Very well put.

Man, I tell ya like half the people in here are either poloticians, authors, or lawyers. I just got my pictures back from that day. I will post the pic online soon. It came out pretty good of me the kid and the baby whale.

 

[keralucu]

I have really enjoyed this thread - I used to love going to zoos and aquariums and seeing all the animals and marine life as up close and personal as possible, but when I became more aware of animal rights, conservation etc I stopped going because I believed it was cruel to keep them in captivity. And living in Thailand, unfortunately this is, more often than not, the case - to provide entertainment to the public as opposed to actually studying the animals as a means of protecting their species and increasing their chances of survival in the wild.

The points that you have raised are all very thought-provoking and conscience-raising. If only the masses could come to the same realisations as we have.

Julie, again, well said. I do hope to visit one of the Sea Worlds one day.

Wheezy - I'm jealous of your experience with the orcas... I saw some at Ocean Park in Hong Kong many years ago, but it wasn't quite the same as we could not see them close up in their tank - they were performing in a show which I found depressing.

Thanks y'all for this interesting and intelligent discussion.

 

[Ladydiver]

I could be wrong on this, but I thought I heard somewhere that SeaWorld no longer takes animals from the wild for their shows and exhibits. I thought they now only use the animals born in their parks for the shows and that the animals that are in their care from the "natural" world were there because the rescue and rehabilitation aspect of what they do. It was my understanding that they pick these animals up and do whatever rehabilitation is necessary to get them healthy and back out into their natural environment. Like what they did with JJ, the baby gray whale that they rescued.

Does anyone know if this is indeed the case?

 

[jbd]

but I think I've heard that also. I read so many thiings and watch so many shows about animals and wildlife that I stay about who, what and where I heard about something.

 

[Kane(adian)]

The Vancouver Aquarium indeed has closed its orca exhibit. Meosa, the star of the show was moved to SeaWorld, in California I believe. I don't know if there is more than one in California, but she did go to SeaWorld. She was reported to have been sort of down in the dumps, but I am told that SeaWorld and the Van. Aquarium use a different type of whistle, and when someone used her original type of whistle, she perked up a bit. She had been eating only about half of the normal amount of food that she would normally eat.

JR#97... There is a video of the birth that plays on a tv in the underwater viewing area, if you have not seen it.

JustJules... Keiko has been living in Iceland for some time. There are researchers, etc. That are there monitoring his(?) progress. He has been living primarily in a bay there. He has been leaving for several days at a time now, the longest absense has been 10 days. They have recent video of Keiko interacting with other whales in the wild. From the hydrophones, the researchers say that a group that they have now found may be Keiko's original family, as they make similar sounds (each pod has its own language they say) Keiko is now getting to crunch time though, for the whales that he has been interacting with will only stay near iceland until about the end of August. Which means that he will have to make a decision quick as to whether or not he is going with them. The researhers on the news said that if he does not, then they will need to raise money from the public.

As for the right wrong issue...
I don't need to see animals jump out of the water to impress me. I just enjoy watching them swim. Some tanks are awfully small, they should have nice large tanks, never live alone, and be fed live food. Just my thoughts on that controversial subject.