Keep in mind that the "dive buddy", Mr Robert Hicks, is the Director of Corporate Affairs and the Dive Officer at the Alaska SeaLife Center in Seward. And he is also a Harvard Law School educated lawyer so any wonder why he is saying to the media that it's too soon after the incident to discuss? In law school I think you are taught never to reveal what really happened.
Sea Life Center Scientific Diver dies in training
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The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Panic is quite often viewed as some sort of weakness. It's part and parcel of human existence and incredibly dangerous and this kind of view point leads to denial of the problem rather than resolution.
Due to the legalities surrounding such a death, we may never be privy to all of the details. But if we learn ANYTHING from this tragedy it should be that NO ONE is immune to making a mistake and paying for it with their life. The sea is a harsh mistress, and even the most prepared divers can and will panic under enough duress.
My deepest sympathies to the families and friends of the deceased.
Due to the legalities surrounding such a death, we may never be privy to all of the details. But if we learn ANYTHING from this tragedy it should be that NO ONE is immune to making a mistake and paying for it with their life. The sea is a harsh mistress, and even the most prepared divers can and will panic under enough duress.
My deepest sympathies to the families and friends of the deceased.
EMTPDiver
Contributor
true. the way I heard it, the "panic" was the result of a hypoxic event. This is not something that someone can avoid, no matter how level headed they are under pressure. My biggest source of confusion is how his air supply got so low in the first place. Faulty gauge perhaps? Human error? We will probably never know.
pkonolan
New
After a sad farewell to Matt, we had an opportunity to talk with Matt's widow and his sister who both spoke to the director of the Sea Life Center. The Sea Life Center also had possession of the gear for 24 hours before OSHA seized it. The computers were downloaded there and I saw a copy of the data. The pressure drops indicated in Matt's tank were essentially a straight line regardless of depth. They descended to 115 feet and were only there for a couple of minutes before Matt indicated that he needed to surface (not a low or out-of-air signal). They attempted a stop at 15 but the data indicates that Matt was having trouble maintaining that depth. He then gave the signal for out-of-air. They surfaced and dive buddy dropped his weights Matt attempted to drop his as well but (as was discovered when his body was recovered) they were hung up on the crotch strap. Dive Buddy gave Matt his regulator and attempted to tow him in by pulling on Matt's (as he was reportedly unable to control Matt). Dive buddy's computer indicates he had about 500 psi at the surface and Matt had about 2000. Interestingly, dive buddy's computer data stopped at the fifteen minute mark (shortly before Matt went back down). Matt's kept recording data. The Sea Life Center explanation for the stoppage on dive buddy's computer was due to the fact that he was at the surface(???). Matt went down (as indicated by reports and logged data) 30 feet from shore and in 9 feet of water. Rescuers reported that they could see him clearly from the surface when they arrived. In case you are concerned that was a typo, This man, Matt Myers, who I personally witness save a life; went down thirty feet from shore in nine feet of clear water and dive buddy made no attempts at rescue but instead ran down the shore and then went to the boat to call for help. Presumably, he then waited for others to arrive. It is not certain what he did during the time it took Sea life Center personnel to gas up a rescue boat (that turned out to be already full of gas), put in and travel 5 miles to Fox Island.
The emergency response in this situation is, without question, the worst I have ever witnessed or heard.
The emergency response in this situation is, without question, the worst I have ever witnessed or heard.
EMTPDiver
Contributor
"The emergency response in this situation is, without question, the worst I have ever witnessed or heard."
Why? Please elaborate a bit.
Also, what, if Matt had plenty of air, caused the problem in the first place? Why was he "uncontrollable" at the surface? What was the reason for the emergency ascent?
Also, before you rag too hard on the dive buddy, remember that Matt was at the bottom and weighted, the buddy at the top with no weights. Without weights, it would have been pretty hard, though not impossible, to reach him, especially if the buddy didn't know exactly where the body went down.
And didn't the Coast Guard and Fire Department respond as well? How does their response fit into your "worst response ever" comment?
Why? Please elaborate a bit.
Also, what, if Matt had plenty of air, caused the problem in the first place? Why was he "uncontrollable" at the surface? What was the reason for the emergency ascent?
Also, before you rag too hard on the dive buddy, remember that Matt was at the bottom and weighted, the buddy at the top with no weights. Without weights, it would have been pretty hard, though not impossible, to reach him, especially if the buddy didn't know exactly where the body went down.
And didn't the Coast Guard and Fire Department respond as well? How does their response fit into your "worst response ever" comment?
pkonolan
New
Dear EMTPDiver,
When I spoke of the poor emergency response, the phrase I probably should have used was "emergency reactions". I was speaking primarily of the actions that were taken on the scene before help was even summoned. I would not impune those in the Coast Guard or the Fire Department as I have immense respect for these folks who put their lives on the line virtually every day to help others. I also have heard reports that the person who was initially summoned at the Sea Life Center stopped for three minutes to pray. I'm sorry, but I am as faithful as the next guy, but in an emergency; you pray with your hands and feet and actions.
It is very disturbing to all of us that the Sea Life Center had the equipment for 24 hours before it was seized by OSHA. It is even more disturbing that they downloaded data from supposedly "quarantined" equipment. Was the data still present when OSHA got the equipment? Some on this billboard may not be aware of this but the Sea Life Center is embroiled in a huge controversy right now (Senator Ted Stevens, shady lands deals, etc.). I am certain they have no desire to add to that pile. They have a huge vested interest in this case and can, by no means, be impartial. They should not be within ten miles (or five) of this investigation. Their explanation of why Matt consumed so little air at depth is that he was shallow breathing. I cannot so hastily jump to this conclusion. Try this (even sitting quitely on the couch): shallow breathe drawing in just a fraction of your normal lung capacity. After just a few breaths (or at most, a minute or so) your involuntary reactions will force you to take a deep breath.
As for the difficulty of reaching Matt, I understand it would be difficult but, as you said, not impossible. A man was dying just below where a set of fin tips would have been for a person floating on the surface. Wasn't Matt's life at least worth a try? I am certain if the roles were reversed Matt would have tried. How could it not have been known where he went down? It is reported that dive buddy was towing him when he went down.
But, we can't change the past. We can only do what is right going forward. What's right is that the Sea Life Center should not be involved in this investigation at all (except maybe interviews with personnel). They need to just stay out of it and accept whatever fate an impartial investigation reveals, regardless how painful it might be in their current state.
When I spoke of the poor emergency response, the phrase I probably should have used was "emergency reactions". I was speaking primarily of the actions that were taken on the scene before help was even summoned. I would not impune those in the Coast Guard or the Fire Department as I have immense respect for these folks who put their lives on the line virtually every day to help others. I also have heard reports that the person who was initially summoned at the Sea Life Center stopped for three minutes to pray. I'm sorry, but I am as faithful as the next guy, but in an emergency; you pray with your hands and feet and actions.
It is very disturbing to all of us that the Sea Life Center had the equipment for 24 hours before it was seized by OSHA. It is even more disturbing that they downloaded data from supposedly "quarantined" equipment. Was the data still present when OSHA got the equipment? Some on this billboard may not be aware of this but the Sea Life Center is embroiled in a huge controversy right now (Senator Ted Stevens, shady lands deals, etc.). I am certain they have no desire to add to that pile. They have a huge vested interest in this case and can, by no means, be impartial. They should not be within ten miles (or five) of this investigation. Their explanation of why Matt consumed so little air at depth is that he was shallow breathing. I cannot so hastily jump to this conclusion. Try this (even sitting quitely on the couch): shallow breathe drawing in just a fraction of your normal lung capacity. After just a few breaths (or at most, a minute or so) your involuntary reactions will force you to take a deep breath.
As for the difficulty of reaching Matt, I understand it would be difficult but, as you said, not impossible. A man was dying just below where a set of fin tips would have been for a person floating on the surface. Wasn't Matt's life at least worth a try? I am certain if the roles were reversed Matt would have tried. How could it not have been known where he went down? It is reported that dive buddy was towing him when he went down.
But, we can't change the past. We can only do what is right going forward. What's right is that the Sea Life Center should not be involved in this investigation at all (except maybe interviews with personnel). They need to just stay out of it and accept whatever fate an impartial investigation reveals, regardless how painful it might be in their current state.
bubbleblowindude
Contributor
At the risk of "speaking out of turn" I would like to offer some speculation. The purpose is to encourage an open dialogue rather than asssign blame or create hard feelings. I have spoken to and heard from any number of sources ranging from "scientific divers" affiliated with the Sea Life center to friends of the family and am nothing but sympathetic to this whole incident. Above all, my heart goes out to the family and my prayers are with them. I would like to propose the following speculation for considerstion. WHAT IF... as the divers descend, it begins to occur to a diver that maybe that new undergarment didn't REALLY require the extra 8 lbs of weight he was wearing. Oh well he thought, I can handle it because I really dont want to come across as unsure or less than confident. As the divers reached depth, (115 ft) the breathing gas, now some 4 1/2 times more dense began to flow with a marked decrease in efficiency. The turbulence in the airways (first stage, hose, 2nd stage, trachea, bronchioles, and alveoli) meant there was an inefficiency in complete gas exchange. As the dive progressed, the diver retained more CO2 which then triggered the respiratory system to breathe even faster. More volume demand through the regulator and associated airways created even more turbulence (see reynolds number) and therefore increased CO2 retention (hypercapnia) and subsequently increased anxiety and CO2 norcosis. Finally, the diver knowing that he was not 100%, signalled the need to ascend. As the ascent begins, a sense of urgency sets in, and workload increases. Finally, upon reaching the safety stop depth the diver has so much air in his BCD to offset the extra weight that every little fluctuation in depth creates such a change in bouyancy that he has difficulty in "holding" his stop depth. At some point, the additional workload and subsequent hypercapnia presents such a demand on the regulator that he thinks it is not supplying him with gas and signals "out-of-air" to his buddy and swims toward the surface. Upon surfacing, he has become so exhausted that the swim to the shore is difficult. Coupled with the belief that he was out of gas, there is no other option than "ditching" is weight belt. ( An action that 85% of all drowned diver DO NOT do) It is a real credit to the diver that he attempted to do so, but in the belief that an unintentially lost weight belt at depth would present problems, he might have chose to secure the belt UNDER his harness therefore rendering it non-ditchable. (A VERY credible reason). Alas, in a fight for his life he acts as some would call "panic" he went in to an auto-pilot mode of survival which unfortunately in this divers case...was lost. Again, I am NOT saying that any of these speculations are fact or even possibilities, but rather trying to spark some thought about what divers need to consider EVEN at an "advanced" status. The fact is, I dove 1 mile from the location of this incident today, and because I switched from a 200 gram thinsulate undergarment to a 400 gram undergarment, I added 12 lbs. It turned out to be slightly less than I ultimately needed, there was some uncertainty and speculation involved. NONE of us are immune no matter how confident we may be.....**** happens. Please evaluate how you dive, seek a lifetime of training and experience, and learn from others mistakes. God bless Matthew Myers family, and god bless you that your family will never know the heart ache of a diving accident.
EMTPDiver
Contributor
As far as the Sea Life Center's involvement in this whole thing goes, I agree. I am not certain that they should have been allowed to keep anything that may be used as evidence against them if some unsafe work practices or other mistakes made on their part make them liable in part for this accident. As for the Sea Life Center's responder who stopped to pray, that is pretty silly. If I stopped for several minutes to pray every time I was paged to jump in an ambulance and run off to save someone's butt, their would be a few more dead people in this world, that's for sure.
I do wonder, however, why the dive buddy was unable or unwilling to rescue his friend. It seems that there is probably more to the story than you or the papers are able or willing (there's that phrase again) to say. I don't think there are many people who are so cold-hearted as to simply allow someone to drown in a situation like this. There almost certainly must be some other factor that we are unaware of which prevented this guy from jumping in and pulling the victim back up.
I guess my point it don't jump to conclusions until all the facts are in, and even then be very, very careful to assume irresponsibility, motive, or guilt. Recently a patient under my care wound up dying of his injuries after I relinquished care to someone else. This patient had obviously critical injuries that required immediate attention. The person/agency who transferred care to me had somehow failed to realize the significance of his injuries, as did I, as did the people/agency to whom I released him. As a result, he died while being cared for in a manner/unit that I now consider to have been obviously innapropriate for his level of injury. Am I responsible for his death because I could have possibly refused to take him to the unit where he ultimately died? Is that place resposible for his death because they failed to recognize their inability to treat a patient with his level of injury? Is the sending facility responsible for failing to arrange a more appropriate level of treatment for him? Or is the patient responsible for his own death by making a poor decision which led to his being injured? My point is that we are all responsible to some degree for this person's untimely end, but the person most responsible was the person who, at some point saw trouble on the horizon but ignored the warning signs and got themselves into a sticky spot in the first place. I hate to say it, but it is not the dive buddy's fault that Matt wound up in trouble. Its not the Sea Life Center's fault for responding three minutes later than they could have because some guy was praying. Matt was an accomplished diver and was responsible for his own safety. Ultimately, he made a mistake.
I'd say its about time to let the rumors die. No one but Matt really knows what actually happened. Lets reserve judgement, especially when it comes to blaming the dive buddy whom I am sure is feeling pretty low right now.
I do wonder, however, why the dive buddy was unable or unwilling to rescue his friend. It seems that there is probably more to the story than you or the papers are able or willing (there's that phrase again) to say. I don't think there are many people who are so cold-hearted as to simply allow someone to drown in a situation like this. There almost certainly must be some other factor that we are unaware of which prevented this guy from jumping in and pulling the victim back up.
I guess my point it don't jump to conclusions until all the facts are in, and even then be very, very careful to assume irresponsibility, motive, or guilt. Recently a patient under my care wound up dying of his injuries after I relinquished care to someone else. This patient had obviously critical injuries that required immediate attention. The person/agency who transferred care to me had somehow failed to realize the significance of his injuries, as did I, as did the people/agency to whom I released him. As a result, he died while being cared for in a manner/unit that I now consider to have been obviously innapropriate for his level of injury. Am I responsible for his death because I could have possibly refused to take him to the unit where he ultimately died? Is that place resposible for his death because they failed to recognize their inability to treat a patient with his level of injury? Is the sending facility responsible for failing to arrange a more appropriate level of treatment for him? Or is the patient responsible for his own death by making a poor decision which led to his being injured? My point is that we are all responsible to some degree for this person's untimely end, but the person most responsible was the person who, at some point saw trouble on the horizon but ignored the warning signs and got themselves into a sticky spot in the first place. I hate to say it, but it is not the dive buddy's fault that Matt wound up in trouble. Its not the Sea Life Center's fault for responding three minutes later than they could have because some guy was praying. Matt was an accomplished diver and was responsible for his own safety. Ultimately, he made a mistake.
I'd say its about time to let the rumors die. No one but Matt really knows what actually happened. Lets reserve judgement, especially when it comes to blaming the dive buddy whom I am sure is feeling pretty low right now.
Darnold9999
Contributor
A small point, but assuming a dry suit, if you have ditched your weight belt and have an empty tank 10 feet of water could very well be impossible, particularly if you were diving neoprene.
The only way I can think of to get down would be to flood the drysuit. Not something you would necessarily think of in the heat of the moment - and I suspect would only work in a trilam.
The only way I can think of to get down would be to flood the drysuit. Not something you would necessarily think of in the heat of the moment - and I suspect would only work in a trilam.
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