SDI DMs and up must demonstrate skills while neutrally buoyant

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

No, I said:



If they HAVE to fin, that means their BCD doesn't have enough lift. If their BCD does have enough lift, then they don't HAVE to fin. They just need to add more air to their BCD.



You said:



In saying that you are negatively buoyant when you are correctly weighted, I demonstrated that your statement is false. Over weighted IS NOT EQUAL TO being negatively buoyant.

You do not see people finning because they are over weighted (unless they are SO over weighted that they exceed their BCD's lift - which was the point I was making that you originally responded to). You see people finning because they are negatively buoyant. And that happens to divers who are over weighted AND to ones that are weighted correctly. (Assuming not over weighted to the point of exceeding their BCD's lift) being over weighted has NOTHING to do with them finning to maintain their depth. Being negatively buoyant does - which can happen no matter what your weighting is. And THAT is my point - to decouple the concepts of weighting and buoyancy control. Saying "you're constantly finning and that's because you're over weight" is just plain WRONG. They're finning because they have not established neutral buoyancy - which they can do whether they are correctly weighted or over weighted.
Checking out of the pissing contest now!
 
Details matter. Correct, precise terminology matters.

The Primacy Effect is real.

Telling OW students that they are finning too much because they are over weighted is not helping them in the long run.
 
Telling OW students that they are finning too much because they are over weighted is not helping them in the long run.
No one has said that. I clarified my statement. But you seemed to have missed that.
 
Actually, they did. Not you, but he who has chosen to not get pissed on any more.
Actually I didn't stuartv is the one who brought OW students into. I commented about finning to stay off the bottom whether you are over weighted and not compensating with your BCD or you are negatively buoyant and not compensating with your BCD the result is the same you sink if you stop finning or sculling.
 
Actually I didn't stuartv is the one who brought OW students into. I commented about finning to stay off the bottom whether you are over weighted and not compensating with your BCD or you are negatively buoyant and not compensating with your BCD the result is the same you sink if you stop finning or sculling.
Yes, you did say that. But you never said it very clearly until just now, and you conflated it with:
Over weighted = negatively buoyant.

My statement said nothing about being correctly weighted it was about over weighting and negatively buoyant. I was replying to finning to compensate for over weighted and or negatively buoyant and again I see it all time.
 
Yes, you did say that. But you never said it very clearly until just now, and you conflated it with:
You lost me nowhere did I state I was telling OW students if they're finning they're over weighted? I'll give you the over weighted = negative as yes if you are using your BCD you can make yourself neutral or positive what I meant was if you are over weighted you will be negative unless^^.
 
The slates are not agency Standards, nor even mentioned in the Standards. I do refer to them to make sure I don't forget to cover any required skills. Using them as an exact template for how the class is supposed to be taught is, well, not what I or anyone at my shop does. That is one of the things I really like about teaching under SDI. SDI instructors have a LOT of flexibility in HOW to teach the class. There is no REQUIREMENT for 4 entry and exits in confined water, for example, even though exactly following the slates would have that as one of the results. When were your slates printed, by the way?

As I have said several times. I came into my current shop assuming that all our OW students would have 2 days of pool time. I was shocked when I learned that's not how they (now we) do it. I was highly skeptical that decent divers could be trained with only one pool session. But, I kept an open mind and watched and learned. Now, after working for the shop since the end of April and participating in classes for, I don't know, 50 OW students(?), I can see that the results speak for themselves. To be clear, I feel like Amanda Baker is the Master of preparing students well for OW checkouts in just one pool session. I am still learning from her every time we teach. John has been out of the water since I've been at the shop, so I have yet to see him in action with OW students. And probably won't any time soon, as he generally teaches tech and Amanda generally handles the OW training (with help from myself and others).

We do not add Rescue skills to the OW class. We do not add freediving skills. So, we would certainly be able to accomplish all the CW stuff in less time than what you need. That said, I personally am skeptical of adding that much to the OW class. Not without also adding a number of dives beyond the required 4 OW dives. They have more than enough to digest without adding all those additional skills. But, that is just my opinion and, like when I came to my current shop, I am open-minded about other ways of doing things - especially if they come with a track record of good results.
Just got my new set of slates at the beginning of this season. Wore the old ones out. Adding to the class does not overload the students because we train over 5-6 weeks and they have time to digest all the info. We normally do 5 OW dives with an average bottom time of 1 hour per dive. If their air consumption is good and the temps allow, it's not unusual for them to come out of the checkout dives with close to 6 hours of bottom time.
Both checkout days usually run about 6-8 hours and between dives we cover additional material. Same as in the class room when I teach gas management and emergency deco procedures. These were all part of the OW class when I was a YMCA Instructor and later SEI. I saw no need to change what I was teaching as long as SDI allowed me to.
I've known John for over 10 years.
I'm actually affiliated with John's shop, since SDI used to require an instructor be affiliated with one, for a number of years now.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom