Scubapro vs Aspek with Nitrox?

[Sylvie]

Hi Everyone

I’m a relative newbie (i.e. advanced opened water with less than 100 dives) and I am in the process of buying my first regulator set. I’d appreciate some advice from you diving gurus out there - please. After much research I have narrowed my choices and I am contemplating between the following:

1st Stage / 2nd Stage / 3rd Stage
Scubapro MK 25 AF/ G250 HP / R190 Octopus without SPG @ €200
Apeks ATX 40 3 stage set plus SPG @ € 300
Apeks ATX 50 3 stage set (I also like this set, but it’s rather on the expensive side for me and I’d only consider it if I can find a good deal)

I’d love to have the latest top notch equipment, but I am a student and can’t afford to be too choosy at this point in time. That said I would still like something sturdy and reliable that will last me years to come. I am a recreational diver and dive primarily in the tropics (if I am lucky 2-3 dive holidays a year), but I think that once I have full gear of my own I would like in to dive in the local alpine lakes, which are up to 18 – 27 C at the surface in mid summer, but can also be significantly colder depending which lake you choose. Thus I need a regular that is also proven in cold water. I believe the models listed able are suitable.

I’m also planning on taking a nitrox course during a two week dive holiday in Egypt this October, thus I’d like a regulator that I can use for nitrox as well. The last time I went on a dive holiday I rented Scubapro titanium regulator set prior to leaving. I was satisfied with its performance, but I was also disappointed that I consequently couldn’t take a nitrox course due to the titanium. I wish I would have know that earlier. I’m told that new regulators are all fine for Nitrox so long as the mix isn’t above 40%. This is the case for Aspeks. However, the official documentation from ScubaPro doesn’t mention anything about this. Moreover since the Scubapro G250 HP has been on the market for years and has subsequently been replaced by the S600, I am not sure that it qualifies as a so called new model. Can it also be used with enriched air?

Additionally, I am concerned about the Apeks ATX series vs the old TX series. I heard both are good, however, I read somewhere on this board that the hoses (or something) in the new Apeks ATX series is not of standard size, thus making minor repairs etc while on holiday more problematic. Is this true? I’d like a set of kit where it wouldn’t be all too difficult to get replacement parts, while on holiday. Does anyone have any recommendations for good starter set?

Lastly, if I can’t find a deal with a SPG, is it preferable to purchase a SPG from the same brand, or can I choose any brand i.e. Suunto?

If it has any relevance, I dive primarily in the Indian Ocean and alternatively in the Coral Sea / GBR while visiting friends in Cairns. I’ll be diving in the Red Sea for the first time in October.

Thanks in advance
Sylvie
Spending far too much time surfing the net for dive equipment & holiday info instead of studying
:newbie:

 

[diverUp]

Well to start with, you can use any of the newer regs/1st stages with nitrox up to 40%. Anything higher and you will have to have them "cleaned" for Oxygen use.

I personally dive with Scubapro Mk10/Mk25 S600/G250.

The G250, though an older model is still a great reg!

That said...either of your choices are good ones and will work, you can't go wrong with either of the setups.

I'm not sure about the new apeks, but I do know that wherever you go, you are bound to find someone who can work on Scubapro as well as have parts for them.

Soooo....Try to test dive em both if you can, if not go for the best bang for the buck.

As far as an SPG goes...it does not have to be the same brand...go with what you like.

 

[RichLockyer]

The hose issue is not a big deal.
ONE hose is a 1/2", rather than 3/8. Scubapro uses 3/8. I've seen other manufacturers with some oddball connections... either the 1/2 or 3/8 are pretty easy to deal with, and if you're worried, buy a 1/2 to 3/8 reducing adapter and then if for some reason you can't find a 1/2" hose, you can use the 3/8.

In reality, you aren't likely to need it if your gear is well cared for, barring an accident of some kind.

The connection on the 2nd stage is the same as everyone else's (except for Poseidon).

Either SP or Apeks will give you solid service. I'm not familiar with the SP line so I cannot comment directly on which one might be better. All Apeks are basically the same, with the only differences being the adjusting knob and the cold water kit.
I've not had problems with my T20 in 50^f water and it does not have the cold water kit.
The adjusting knob is REALLY nice to have, but also, for a new diver, it is one more thing to worry about. A nonadjustable 2nd will be nice... the adjustable can be adjusted (underwater) to go from absolutely wonderful to absolutely terrible.... "terrible" is not good when you run into a situation and forget about it.

I prefer the Apeks line.

 

[Sylvie]

Thanks for the response guys.

In the mean time the Scubapro deal has been sold out. I'm a bit disappointed because I'm sure it's a good reg. However I was since told that Scubapro can freeze up in cold water. Has anyone experience this? A friend of mine had his freeze up on him during a lake dive in October. October isn't very cold here, and the local lake he was in is warm in summer since it isn't in a very high altitude. Well not by Swiss standards anyway.

I'm sure Scubapro would be great for vacation diving in the tropics or sub tropics, but I am beginning to think that Apeks will be more versatile if I want to dive locally. Even in mid summer some of the lakes can be really cold, particularly the glacier fed lakes that offer the best visibility. On the other hand I get the impression that Scubapro will be easier to repair while I’m abroad, which is probably where I’ll do most of my diving. Decisions, decisions…..

Now I just have to find a deal that I can afford on my student budget ;-0 , which is much more difficult than deciding what reg to buy.

 

[squidguy]

Since you are on a budget, you might consider an online store. The one I know of in Europe is Diveinn at: www.scubastore.com located in Spain .

Scubapro and Apeks are top rated as noted on this board. Apeks are environmentally sealed diaphragm regs and Scubapro has both diaphragm and piston first stages. If you do a search on this board there has been a raging debate about Scubapro freezeups in cold temperatures.

Most current regulators are good for up to 40% Nitrox. If you take advanced nitrox (good for 100% O2) you will (as noted) have to get an O2 cleaning (Christolube and Viton O-rings) and precludes the use of Titanium.

Apeks TX vs ATX - ATX is the new version and has a smaller 2nd stage and smaller exhaust ports (lighter!), some say you may notice more bubble interference around your mask. Some also say you may notice it breathes a bit wet while inverted. I have not noticed this with an ATX 200. ATX40 is an ATX50 without the screw adjuster-not much difference, although the size of the heat exchanger might be different... not sure.

Apeks has gone with a larger diameter hose on the primary reg for higher performance!?! However you can get an adapter to use with "regular" hoses. Some carry these around in their "spares" kit. OR have a spare hose... However with regular maintanance and scrutiny, the hose should last as long as any other hose.

You can use any SPG with your regs. If you plan on using a compass, the Suunto SK7 is highly regarded. I use a Aqualung Pivot which has a depth guage/SPG/SK7 integrated. The markings are in PSI/BAR/feet/metre.... good for any buddy anywhere in the world. Scubapro has a mini console which has small instruments that seems rather cute.

Good luck with your shopping and happy diving!! :chinese: :goofy:

 

[Sylvie]

Hi Squidguy

Thanks for the detailed info.

I found what seems like a decent offer for Apex in neighbouring Germany, but it hasn’t obtained the approval from the CFO yet. So my search continues, while I work on my persuasion skills. I am also looking on the net (including the link you recommended), but so far nothing seems to beat the dive shop on Apex (they made a huge order). I have, however, found other systems that are a little more affordable, but after reading review etc, I'd really prefer Apex or Scubapro. I’ve also searched numerous dive magazines etc. All that time devoted to diving and not studying – bad girl.
I’ll be going to the Netherlands on Saturday for eight days. It’s primarily university related, but I will have some time off. Now that I have a fair idea of prices in € I can shop there as well.

Wish me luck

Sylvie

 

[squidguy]

Hi Sylvie,

CFO =Chief Finanical Officer!?!?... I just rob a bank!!
I have heard Apeks could be cheaper in Europe as they are made in the UK.
If you want more research try www.divernet.com and check under equipment, they have plenty of regulator reviews.
Darn I envy you... with countries being a stone's throw away! Enjoy the Dutch touch! Good luck on your quest!

 

[rescuediver009]

I would recommend the Apeks ATX40 to you in a second. It offers the most remarkable breathing rate (for a non-adjustable reg) that I has experienced, plus it has a heat sink so you don't have to worry about freeze up. the environmental seal takes care of any first stage problems you can think of and the swivel is quite handy.

 

[Sylvie]

rescuediver009 once bubbled...
I would recommend the Apeks ATX40 to you in a second. It offers the most remarkable breathing rate (for a non-adjustable reg) that I has experienced, plus it has a heat sink so you don't have to worry about freeze up. the environmental seal takes care of any first stage problems you can think of and the swivel is quite handy.

Hi Resequediver

Thanks for the words of advice. I’m planning to test the Apex ATX 40 set this weekend. I tested four regs last Thursday, Cressie sub XS 3/AC 2, Apex CTX 50, and Scuba Pro MK 25 with S600, and then the MK 16 or MK 18 with I forget what reg.

The Cressie had a compact first stage, which is easier for travelling but leaves you fewer options as it only has outlets for 4 hoses. The first stage goes up to 200/300 bar, which should come in handy in the future as more 300 bar tanks become more common. However the first stage is fixed, meaning it doesn’t rotate. (Sorry I can’t think of a better word in English). I didn’t like the second stage, as made my teeth cold, and it wasn’t as smooth as the other models I tried. Perhaps this can be adjusted and improved with a different mouth piece, but in gave me a bad impression. Sounds silly, I know.

I liked the Apex. I liked the rotation and the position of the valves in the first stage. It was all in metal and looked very sturdy; of course looks don’t mean everything. It goes up to 300 bar, which is a nice plus. The second stage was very smooth. It had a good mouth piece, but it required more effort to inhale, even when on the most open setting. I was quite surprised by this, as I had different expectations. I thought inhaling would be much easier. I also expeced to feel a greater difference between the most open and the most shut adjustment setting. There was a difference of course, but on land it didn't too large. Perhaps it's safer so. I am not an expert.

I liked the ScubaPro MK 25 with S600. Sensible first stage, although only up to 200 bar. I think I liked the scuba pro because it’s what I am used to, and it met my expectations. It also had a comfortable mouth piece. I had a lot of air inhaling (effortlessly) and exhaling was very good too, albeit not quite as smooth as the apex. However it was a lot more expensive (Apex is on sale), so it is out of the question unless I find a great special somewhere. As an alternative I tried the KM 18 or 16, but didn’t like it nearly as much as the more expensive ScubaPro MK 25 / S600 combo, and less than the Apex even though inhaling was easer in comparison.

I had over an hour to try out the systems, but in the end didn’t get anything because I couldn’t make up my mind. I will try the ATX Apex 40 this weekend to see if I feel a substantial difference between it and the CTX 50. I figure if I get the CTX 50 I’d be diving with it open all the way for most of the time anyway, so why spend extra for the adjustment possibility when I will rarely use it - unless I remember to do so while facing strong current. The SubPro S 600 isn't adjustable either (to my knowledge) and it was fine. I’ll also try other systems as I might just like something that isn’t too expensive. I did all the testing on land, so perhaps it not really that valid as the regs will feel different underwater. Moreover, I assume that I’ll get used to whatever reg I have (unless it’s uncomfortable or something i.e. makes my teeth cold) and will adjust my breathing style accordingly. Am I right? If the whether permits I might rent some equipment and try it out in the local alpine lakes this week to get a better feel for it. I just hope the water won’t be too cold.

This is quite a time consuming activity.

Sylvie

 

[Genesis]

is indeed adjustable.

One thing to be aware of - on long dives you may get SEVERE cotton mouth with the S600. It is an all-plastic second (internally) which means that all the moisture you exhale will go into the water, and none will be re-evaporated into the next breath.

I get SEVERE cotton mouth with it; the G250 (a much older second!) which has a metal air tube doesn't do this to me to nearly the same degree.

YMMV of course.