Scubapro SPG Failure

[Mike Walker]

The safety feature of the gauge did it's job properly but your trying to "fix it" wasn't proper. You can't blame SP for that.

Going back to the earlier analogy - it's 2022, we have circuit breakers, not fuses. There's reason for this. A trivially resettable OP mechanism (i.e. and o-ring jammed in a groove) should work repeatedly and consistently or should be clearly marked/documented otherwise. Putting the o-ring back in isn't 'overcoming that safety feature' it is simply replacing a component that appears to be replaceable.

If an o-ring pops on your tank do you just scrub the dive and sit there looking sad or do you make a reasonable effort to diagnose and repair? You can't blame me for that (though you seem to like to try...). No reasonable person would think the front face of the gauge would be in parallel with that OP mechanism without seeing the helpful diagram provided by James79.

I did actually find the manual just now (hidden under '2 gauge console' rather than with the individual gauge page that pops up from search) and it does, in fact, indicate the o-ring is a replaceable component - albeit by an 'Authorized ScubaPro Dealer'. Interestingly it also indicates that the gauge and OP mechanism must be inspected annually by the same 'Authorized ScubaPro Dealer' - do you, BoltSnap, have your gauges inspected annually by authorized dealers?

I'd be very curious what the actual protocol is for go/no go on that o-ring given the only practical thing you can do without removing it is look at it, which would seem to tell you very little. And if you remove it, obviously you'd need to put it back in.

Anyways, this post was mostly to highlight a curiosity as everyone standing around when it happened had the reaction of 'wow, that actually does happen'. Also, to highlight how ScubaPro's continuing refusal to provide detailed documentation (such as the helpful diagram from James79) for their products 'for safety reasons' continues to endanger their users that exist in the real world where there is not an 'Authorized ScubaPro Dealer' on every corner.

 

[BoltSnap]

Going back to the earlier analogy - it's 2022, we have circuit breakers, not fuses. There's reason for this. A trivially resettable OP mechanism (i.e. and o-ring jammed in a groove) should work repeatedly and consistently or should be clearly marked/documented otherwise. Putting the o-ring back in isn't 'overcoming that safety feature' it is simply replacing a component that appears to be replaceable.

If an o-ring pops on your tank do you just scrub the dive and sit there looking sad or do you make a reasonable effort to diagnose and repair? You can't blame me for that (though you seem to like to try...). No reasonable person would think the front face of the gauge would be in parallel with that OP mechanism without seeing the helpful diagram provided by James79.

I did actually find the manual just now (hidden under '2 gauge console' rather than with the individual gauge page that pops up from search) and it does, in fact, indicate the o-ring is a replaceable component - albeit by an 'Authorized ScubaPro Dealer'. Interestingly it also indicates that the gauge and OP mechanism must be inspected annually by the same 'Authorized ScubaPro Dealer' - do you, BoltSnap, have your gauges inspected annually by authorized dealers?

I'd be very curious what the actual protocol is for go/no go on that o-ring given the only practical thing you can do without removing it is look at it, which would seem to tell you very little. And if you remove it, obviously you'd need to put it back in.

Anyways, this post was mostly to highlight a curiosity as everyone standing around when it happened had the reaction of 'wow, that actually does happen'. Also, to highlight how ScubaPro's continuing refusal to provide detailed documentation (such as the helpful diagram from James79) for their products 'for safety reasons' continues to endanger their users that exist in the real world where there is not an 'Authorized ScubaPro Dealer' on every corner.

What you are saying and trying to prove is total BS. When the plug blew, this meant that there was a problem that had to be fixed or gauge is throw out. To put the safety plug back in without understanding what went wrong first, is wrong and obviously dangerous.

BTW, safety plug isn't a fuse box or circuit breaker and your analogy isn't appropriate and is wrong. Also, if a circuit breaker is tripped, I would find out why before resetting it.

 

[Bigbella]

I did actually find the manual just now (hidden under '2 gauge console' rather than with the individual gauge page that pops up from search) and it does, in fact, indicate the o-ring is a replaceable component - albeit by an 'Authorized ScubaPro Dealer'. Interestingly it also indicates that the gauge and OP mechanism must be inspected annually by the same 'Authorized ScubaPro Dealer' - do you, BoltSnap, have your gauges inspected annually by authorized dealers?

In decades of diving, I am aware of no one who annually tests or, particularly repairs SPGs once they crap-out, save for only replacing the occasional spool in the hose. That would almost be akin to, as mentioned earlier, refilling a disposable lighter or taking a rat to the vet.

I inspect my own digital and analogue gauges; and provided that they jibe with my other instruments, that story is over . . .

 

[L13]

Going back to the earlier analogy - it's 2022, we have circuit breakers, not fuses. There's reason for this. A trivially resettable OP mechanism (i.e. and o-ring jammed in a groove) should work repeatedly and consistently or should be clearly marked/documented otherwise. Putting the o-ring back in isn't 'overcoming that safety feature' it is simply replacing a component that appears to be replaceable.

If you keep reseting a circuit breaker without figuring out why it tripped, you are going to discover it works the same way as your house burns down.

 

[Mike Walker]

What you are saying and trying to prove is total BS. When the plug blew, this meant that there was a problem that had to be fixed or gauge is throw out. To put the safety plug back in without understanding what went wrong first, is wrong and obviously dangerous.

BTW, safety plug isn't a fuse box or circuit breaker and your analogy isn't appropriate and is wrong. Also, if a circuit breaker is tripped, I would find out why before resetting it.

BoltSnap - it is not a 'safety plug'. It is an 'overpressure relief valve' as described in the manufacturer documentation. One that is explicitly noted to be replaceable. Subtle but important difference.

I'm curious: how would you diagnose the 'problem that had to be fixed' without putting the o-ring back in at least once?

(It should be noted that the general circumstances suggested a low probability of drastically overfilled tank - tanks were being filled in groups and no other divers tanks were showing overfills. This was almost certainly a gauge issue.)

Certainly - knowing what i know now about the construction of the gauge due to the helpful and informative posts early in this thread I would take a slightly different course of troubleshooting in the future. However, based on the info I had available at the time I stand behind my course of action. In particular I would note that I simply reinstalled the original, replaceable O-ring (akin to resetting a breaker) rather than - for example - filling the hole with epoxy (akin to sticking a bolt in a fuse holder) which would be unreasonable and clearly defeating a safety mechanism.

As far as the electrical analogy, I believe it is apt. And as someone who works adjacent the electrical industry I'd suggest that 99% of people I've encountered, including many licensed electricians, do attempt a breaker reset pretty early in their troubleshooting process. It is not the best procedure, but it is typical human behaviour and equipment designs need to accommodate.

Your focus seems to be to assign blame based on 20/20 hindsight. What is this adding to the conversation that wasn't already covered in a much more helpful and informative way by earlier posters?

In decades of diving, I am aware of no one who annually tests or, particularly repairs SPGs once they crap-out, save for only replacing the occasional spool in the hose. That would almost be akin to, as mentioned earlier, refilling a disposable lighter or taking a rat to the vet.

I inspect my own digital and analogue gauges; and provided that they jibe with my other instruments, that story is over . . .

I expect this is typical. Manufacturer recommended procedures are rarely followed precisely with scuba gear and designs need to allow for this.

If you keep reseting a circuit breaker without figuring out why it tripped, you are going to discover it works the same way as your house burns down.

See above. Also, there is a big difference between resetting over and over and resetting twice in a controlled manner while trying to detect the source of the problem.

 

[happy-diver]

No photos, film too expensive

 

[SlugLife]

Going back to the earlier analogy - it's 2022, we have circuit breakers, not fuses. There's reason for this. A trivially resettable OP mechanism (i.e. and o-ring jammed in a groove) should work repeatedly and consistently or should be clearly marked/documented otherwise. Putting the o-ring back in isn't 'overcoming that safety feature' it is simply replacing a component that appears to be replaceable.

If an o-ring pops on your tank do you just scrub the dive and sit there looking sad or do you make a reasonable effort to diagnose and repair? You can't blame me for that (though you seem to like to try...). No reasonable person would think the front face of the gauge would be in parallel with that OP mechanism without seeing the helpful diagram provided by James79.

I did actually find the manual just now (hidden under '2 gauge console' rather than with the individual gauge page that pops up from search) and it does, in fact, indicate the o-ring is a replaceable component - albeit by an 'Authorized ScubaPro Dealer'. Interestingly it also indicates that the gauge and OP mechanism must be inspected annually by the same 'Authorized ScubaPro Dealer' - do you, BoltSnap, have your gauges inspected annually by authorized dealers?

I'd be very curious what the actual protocol is for go/no go on that o-ring given the only practical thing you can do without removing it is look at it, which would seem to tell you very little. And if you remove it, obviously you'd need to put it back in.

Anyways, this post was mostly to highlight a curiosity as everyone standing around when it happened had the reaction of 'wow, that actually does happen'. Also, to highlight how ScubaPro's continuing refusal to provide detailed documentation (such as the helpful diagram from James79) for their products 'for safety reasons' continues to endanger their users that exist in the real world where there is not an 'Authorized ScubaPro Dealer' on every corner.

I don't think anyone is intentionally "blaming" or criticizing you. It's possible I may have done the same thing.

I'm very happy you posted this thread, because I'm learning a lot from the various replies here.

I agree that one of my top frustration with ScubaPro is their unwillingness to provide documentation and service kits to end-users. I don't think it's good-faith on their part, genuinely trying to protect users, but rather a quid-pro-quo to drive money to dive-shops, therefore dive-shops are more inclined to sell their products.

 

[Mike Walker]

I don't think anyone is intentionally "blaming" or criticizing you.

BoltSnap: "What you are saying and trying to prove is total BS."

I mean...

These sort of one line "ItS ALL YouR FauLt!!!!!!!" posts that add no other content need more pushback on here. I'm more than happy to hear that I'm wrong with a well reasoned explanation as several others provided.

I agree that one of my top frustration with ScubaPro is their unwillingness to provide documentation and service kits to end-users. I don't think it's good-faith on their part, genuinely trying to protect users, but rather a quid-pro-quo to drive money to dive-shops, therefore dive-shops are more inclined to sell their products.

I'm less annoyed with SP on this issue than other historic issues. But as my existing - mostly SP - kit ages I'm definitely looking elsewhere for replacements. I'm hoping some of this 'right to repair' legislation that is trickling out in various parts of the world knocks some sense into companies that behave this way.

Anyways, I think the productive portion of this thread is done. I certainly know a bit more about gauges than I did before.

 

[ciocanul]

First of all, sorry for digging out a old thread. I've just had an Aqualung SPG die on the surface with no warning and no reason, stuck to zero forever, and that brought me here.
Being an curious prick, I didn't let the opportunity of tearing it down slip. I was prepared to dremel it open, but the polycarbonate cover just poped out with the help of a sturdier oring picker. The plastic cover has a groove with a thick oring and it's being kept shut by the ambient pressure. Inside of it there's no mechanism so to speak of. It's just a coiled tube welded to the needle underneath the dial, which uncoils as it's being pressurized. There's no burst valve or burst disk, the polycarbonate cover itself being the burst protection. If the hp gas from the hose were to escape inside the spg, the cover would simply pop out without much drama. There's no shoulder, no clamping, no crimping whatsoever on the case that keeps the cover in place, just negative pressure. While attempting to put it back together, the atmospheric pressure inside the case kept pushing back the cover, so I suppose it's being assembled in vacuum.
Now this brings us to my conclusion. There're no need to replace the oring, plug, disk, or whatever looks serviceable, because once it blows, it's over. In means the bourdon tube is shot and hp gas is getting inside the case. In my case, I guess crappy humid air got inside the tube and oxidation clogged it.

 

[Mike Walker]

First of all, sorry for digging out a old thread. I've just had an Aqualung SPG die on the surface with no warning and no reason, stuck to zero forever, and that brought me here.
Being an curious prick, I didn't let the opportunity of tearing it down slip. I was prepared to dremel it open, but the polycarbonate cover just poped out with the help of a sturdier oring picker. The plastic cover has a groove with a thick oring and it's being kept shut by the ambient pressure. Inside of it there's no mechanism so to speak of. It's just a coiled tube welded to the needle underneath the dial, which uncoils as it's being pressurized. There's no burst valve or burst disk, the polycarbonate cover itself being the burst protection. If the hp gas from the hose were to escape inside the spg, the cover would simply pop out without much drama. There's no shoulder, no clamping, no crimping whatsoever on the case that keeps the cover in place, just negative pressure. While attempting to put it back together, the atmospheric pressure inside the case kept pushing back the cover, so I suppose it's being assembled in vacuum.
Now this brings us to my conclusion. There're no need to replace the oring, plug, disk, or whatever looks serviceable, because once it blows, it's over. In means the bourdon tube is shot and hp gas is getting inside the case. In my case, I guess crappy humid air got inside the tube and oxidation clogged it.

Interesting, thanks for the additional info.

The more I learn about SPGs the more I like transmitters :- ).
I've also started carry spare SPGs on trips... better to have a spare than count on price=durability is my current theory.