Scubapro Air 2 or Octo reg or both?

[Pawleysdiver]

Very thoughtful comments from all. I wanted to eliminate a hose to simplify my rig. It is hard to believe that a company that has been in business for decades like Scubapro would make an unsafe product such as an Air 2 and even make several revisions to the product. It seems that if there are performance issues with the Air 2, that SP would have taken it off of the market, years ago. I would like to see some failure statistics, if they exist. That being said, if I go that route, I can definitely see the need for a longer primary hose. I wonder that if someone is in a panic would grab the primary, anyway, because their brain is telling them that the primary is working and they need air, NOW! I practice putting the Air 2 in my mouth all of the time, just in case. I would like to hear some out of air stories to confirm or deny this thought.

 

[Jcp2]

The other thing about the Air2 that is nice is that the inflate and deflate buttons are large and easy to operate, and because of the mouthpiece design, manual oral inflation of the BC is also easier.

 

[shurite7]

It seems that if there are performance issues with the Air 2, that SP would have taken it off of the market, years ago.

Not sure where you got the idea it was/is unsafe. The newer ones (regardless of brand) have been improved and breathe much easier than the older one.

When I lived in the tropics I used to challenge buddies who owned an alternate second stage attached to their BC to conduct an out of drill. The result was a 100% failure rate. Everyone one of them lost control of their buoyancy. The failure was not the equipment, it was the fact they never practiced. The fault was the diver, not the equipment.

I wonder that if someone is in a panic would grab the primary, anyway, because their brain is telling them that the primary is working and they need air, NOW!

During DEMA a talk was given about people running out of air. It was noted there were no cases in which a diver took the alternate in the buddies mouth. They all went with their training and took the alternate. BSAC also made a similar observation. The take home message on this is - people will revert to their training. How well they were able to carry it out depended on how much/often/hard they practiced. This information has been out for quite some time. There are other threads that have discussed this.

 

[outofofficebrb]

Very thoughtful comments from all. I wanted to eliminate a hose to simplify my rig. It is hard to believe that a company that has been in business for decades like Scubapro would make an unsafe product such as an Air 2 and even make several revisions to the product. It seems that if there are performance issues with the Air 2, that SP would have taken it off of the market, years ago. I would like to see some failure statistics, if they exist. That being said, if I go that route, I can definitely see the need for a longer primary hose. I wonder that if someone is in a panic would grab the primary, anyway, because their brain is telling them that the primary is working and they need air, NOW! I practice putting the Air 2 in my mouth all of the time, just in case. I would like to hear some out of air stories to confirm or deny this thought.

I hope you don't think I am saying it is unsafe product. I don't feel that way. I am just saying when things go wrong, it is more difficult to fix. An octo can also free flow and have its issues, but you can easily swap out another octo for it if you have another reg set available which many dive shops and places do have where you are diving, even on a liveaboard. In the times that we had issues with the Air 2, even with spare regulator sets and the right tools, we couldn't just swap things out because of the non-standard connections and hoses. Unfortunately, a regular octo is still far more prevalent which lends itself to making itself an easier fix given the availability of the items. It is more of a nuisance, if anything, not that it was unsafe. Perhaps the actions that my dive buddy decided to take as a result of the issue were less than ideal safety-wise, but the product itself is not unsafe. I just want to ensure that I clarify myself. My personal decision to not use one is because I don't want to deal with the hassle of that but also in that I have personally observed more issues than I would care for and I have seen 0 issues with regular octos on all the trips and dives I've had, mine or other people's. That's all.

 

[Pawleysdiver]

@shurite7, that is what I wanted to hear. Facts. Of course, I want to be safe, above all else. I am going to be travelling and will probably be diving with people that I am buddied up with or do not know, in some situations. If they would be looking for a octo reg, I would certainly want it to be available for them in their time of need.

 

[Bob DBF]

@shurite7, that is what I wanted to hear. Facts. Of course, I want to be safe, above all else. I am going to be travelling and will probably be diving with people that I am buddied up with or do not know, in some situations. If they would be looking for a octo reg, I would certainly want it to be available for them in their time of need.

I use a 40" hose and bungeed backup, also making the alternate unavailable to an OOA diver. At the buddy check before a dive, I just point out that they need to take my primary out of my mouth if I don't hand it to them first, I did the same thing for the five years I had an Air 2 clone. Never had an issue.



Bob

 

[Pawleysdiver]

What started all of this is that my octo was leaking bubbles and I could not get it to stop. I had just had it serviced. It freeflowed even more in a checkout dive in a pool. I took it back to the LDS who serviced it and he made a quick adjustment in front of me. I thought that was the end of it. Then, the very next dive, it leaks bubbles all day. I was thinking TWO regs are easier to service/maintain than THREE. But, some of you have a good point. When travelling, especially overseas, I can see the need to be more conforming to what may be available if something breaks down and you need readily available service/parts so that your whole trip is not ruined. It almost makes me want to carry a spare inflator hose/inflator, in case the Air2 fails and also a backup octo. That way, if the Air 2 fails, I can quickly switch it out for a traditional inflator/octo and my entire trip is not compromised.

 

[Jcp2]

You can use a LP hose with a screw on adapter for different types of BC inflators rather than a crimped on adapter. Then carry a standard adapter as a backup to the Air2 adapter. I also have a 40” hose for my primary with a swivel that goes under the right arm, but had a chance to try out a 7’ long hose setup with a necklaced secondary. The advantage to the long hose was that it was really easy to share air and continue to dive with a partner. The disadvantage was that my hose could get caught up around my snorkel if I wasn’t careful in rewrapping it around my body on recovery in the water, and I would have to be mindful about keeping the excess tucked in my waist strap every so often. Another thing that sometimes occurred was a free flow of the secondary after a giant stride entry off a boat. It was easy to fix; turn regulator mouthpiece down, but an unexpected surprise the first time it happened, as the bubbles come out just under the primary. For me, a 5’ hose and no snorkel might work better.

 

[MichaelMc]

I'd look at the 'streamlined open water setup'. A longer primary, going under your arm. and a short necklaced secondary. Primary donate has advantages, several threads on here discuss it.
Streamlined OW | Dive Gear Express®
Dive Rite "Streamlines Openwater Configuration"

Air 2 is one version of primary donate. But having your secondary attached to your inflator complicates an OOA situation. The Air2 creates several issues that you can do without, ascent being one of them. The 'extra' hose is not a big deal. And with a necklaced secondary is quite short.

If you want back up gear, two identical 2nd stages (primary and necklaced) and a third 2nd stage in your kit will provide travel redundancy. Then your spare can swap for either.

 

[kelemvor]

It almost makes me want to carry a spare inflator hose/inflator, in case the Air2 fails and also a backup octo. That way, if the Air 2 fails, I can quickly switch it out for a traditional inflator/octo and my entire trip is not compromised.

You'll probably want to carry a spare regulator kit. After all, an air2 is no more or less likely to fail than any other regulator.. provided you get it serviced by a competent shop. Sounds like your shop's service tech is questionable based on the experience you had with his two failures to properly service your secondary. I prefer the air2, but an air2 isn't going to fix the problem where a tech can't do his job. For that, you need to replace the tech.

If you want back up gear, two identical 2nd stages (primary and necklaced) and a third 2nd stage in your kit will provide travel redundancy. Then your spare can swap for either.

Having an air2 doesn't prevent you from swapping to a different second stage, except that you'll need an additional hose and power inflator in your SAD bag if you choose to go that route. Personally, I just bring a second regulator. The gauge could fail, the hose(s) could fail, the first stage could fail etc. Or you could just replace the failed part with a part from a rental reg. It's not like installing/removing any of that stuff takes any particular skill.