fieldzy0
Contributor
I don't know who designed this thing, looks like junk. If they keep making this stuff then at least the market share for the other makers will go up. I thing i will stick to my aqualung.
Scubapro A700 - the King of Bling
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One of the best looking regs I have ever seen, like the vintage retro all metal reg, got mine on order now.
SCUBAPRO A700 Regulator - Like a Diamond
SCUBAPRO A700 Regulator - Like a Diamond
realdiver7
Contributor
I didn't actually dive the Scubapro MK17/A700, and know my limited experience with it is not a fair review, so I hope you will take this for what it's worth. We all know that regs must be dived in order to realize their full potential, and diaphragms are not designed to work well in air. I am also very picky, and after fine-tuning regs for several years, I seem to pick up on the slightest differences in breathing characteristics that many divers would probably never notice.
I like to try the latest and greatest new gadgets, and had my heart set on the A700 being the last reg I would ever buy and own, so I really wanted it to be perfect for me. I am also a big fan of Scubapro regs and have been diving them for years.
So....I recently received a MK17/A700 DIN reg set, hooked it up to a cylinder and breathed through it, and was not impressed like I thought I would be. Even when I adjusted it to the point of barely freeflowing with full venturi effect, it did not breathe as easily as my old fine-tuned Scubapro D400 with a MK17 DIN first stage. It also did not breathe as well as an Aqualung Legend that I tried out one time.
Based on the very high price I paid, I fully expected the A700 to breathe noticeably and considerably better than any reg I have ever used, but I was disappointed. The bottom line for my specimen was that it breathed sort of OK when it was slightly freeflowing, but breathed a little hard when set at the point of barely not freeflowing. It reminded me of the original model Scubapro X650 second stage in regards to breathing characteristics. It needed to slightly freeflow to produce smooth breathing effort, which is what some technicians attribute to the smaller case and diaphragm size.
I have a lot of faith in Scubapro regs, and hope that others who actually dive the A700 will have positive experiences that are good enough to justify the high price. I will continue to use my Scubapro MK17/D400 DIN reg set, and be very happy that older technology that has been paid off long ago continues to work well for me.
As a side note, I ended up needing the money worse than the reg, so I was able to return it to where I bought it.
I like to try the latest and greatest new gadgets, and had my heart set on the A700 being the last reg I would ever buy and own, so I really wanted it to be perfect for me. I am also a big fan of Scubapro regs and have been diving them for years.
So....I recently received a MK17/A700 DIN reg set, hooked it up to a cylinder and breathed through it, and was not impressed like I thought I would be. Even when I adjusted it to the point of barely freeflowing with full venturi effect, it did not breathe as easily as my old fine-tuned Scubapro D400 with a MK17 DIN first stage. It also did not breathe as well as an Aqualung Legend that I tried out one time.
Based on the very high price I paid, I fully expected the A700 to breathe noticeably and considerably better than any reg I have ever used, but I was disappointed. The bottom line for my specimen was that it breathed sort of OK when it was slightly freeflowing, but breathed a little hard when set at the point of barely not freeflowing. It reminded me of the original model Scubapro X650 second stage in regards to breathing characteristics. It needed to slightly freeflow to produce smooth breathing effort, which is what some technicians attribute to the smaller case and diaphragm size.
I have a lot of faith in Scubapro regs, and hope that others who actually dive the A700 will have positive experiences that are good enough to justify the high price. I will continue to use my Scubapro MK17/D400 DIN reg set, and be very happy that older technology that has been paid off long ago continues to work well for me.
As a side note, I ended up needing the money worse than the reg, so I was able to return it to where I bought it.
scuba.dude
Contributor
My knowledge of regs is that I dive them, adhere to post-dive maintenance & storage and have them serviced per schedule so the below are just questions - please don't flame, just educate.
If I've understood everything correctly, the A700 is basically an X650/S600 internals w/ polished metal housing?? The SP spec sheet lists the diff between a X650/S600 as 'Coaxial Flow' under Breathing Comfort and 'Super High Flow' under Exhaust Valve in case it's relevant (no idea what the tangible implication of either fact is).
Size: I thought basic physics enables the larger size of a G250V design to provide greater mechanical advantage than a smaller X650/S600 design - wouldn't this suggest a smaller reg requires extra (ergo unnecessary) complexity required to offset this?
Materials: (SCUBAPRO A700 Regulator)
1) Chrome is a finish so it can scratch/wear off and brass is a metal (ok, non-ferrous alloy) - how does this result in greater corrosion resistance to a material (polymer) that basic chemistry precludes from corroding?
2) dry mouth - a) since the G250V is all metal internals, does the plastic housing contribute to dry mouth that much? and b) does the A700 metal housing mitigate this that much?
Design: If the A700 is held together @ 4 points by screws, isn't a G250V design (360-degree contact x 4 threads) more physical contact and simply less prone to failure?
I re-read my post before submitting - it's not intended as a plug for the G250V. I dive one, so it's my reference point. Also, my approach to stuff that keeps me alive under water: while I prefer it to be sexy, if it's made from special cardboard and looks like an ugly mutts' uglier cousin's nuts but works better and has less failure I'll gladly pay you Tuesday to dive with it today ...
tia,
s.d
If I've understood everything correctly, the A700 is basically an X650/S600 internals w/ polished metal housing?? The SP spec sheet lists the diff between a X650/S600 as 'Coaxial Flow' under Breathing Comfort and 'Super High Flow' under Exhaust Valve in case it's relevant (no idea what the tangible implication of either fact is).
Size: I thought basic physics enables the larger size of a G250V design to provide greater mechanical advantage than a smaller X650/S600 design - wouldn't this suggest a smaller reg requires extra (ergo unnecessary) complexity required to offset this?
Materials: (SCUBAPRO A700 Regulator)
1) Chrome is a finish so it can scratch/wear off and brass is a metal (ok, non-ferrous alloy) - how does this result in greater corrosion resistance to a material (polymer) that basic chemistry precludes from corroding?
2) dry mouth - a) since the G250V is all metal internals, does the plastic housing contribute to dry mouth that much? and b) does the A700 metal housing mitigate this that much?
Design: If the A700 is held together @ 4 points by screws, isn't a G250V design (360-degree contact x 4 threads) more physical contact and simply less prone to failure?
I re-read my post before submitting - it's not intended as a plug for the G250V. I dive one, so it's my reference point. Also, my approach to stuff that keeps me alive under water: while I prefer it to be sexy, if it's made from special cardboard and looks like an ugly mutts' uglier cousin's nuts but works better and has less failure I'll gladly pay you Tuesday to dive with it today ...
tia,
s.d
Clammy
Contributor
R
redacted
Guest
As far as dry mouth goes, the all metal case with metal tube probably triples the surface that will provide for condensation as you exhale and humidification as you inhale. I still am a bit unclear on the specific poppet design but I suspect is the same as the poppet in either the S600/G250... or the same as the somewhat shorter version of that poppet used in the X650. I would be very surprised if Scubapro went back to the drawing board on the poppet design. And with a precisely produced and smoothly chromed barrel (tube) I'm sure then are minimizing friction friction between the barrel and the poppet even more than the predecessors.
I dive a number of old Scubapro metal 2nds. They do scratch but not as easily as a plastic case. Mine were all purchase used and many were corroded (verdigris) from poor post dive cleaning. I have no problems with corrosion even with those regs where the chrome has been seriously damaged by wear and neglect.
I don't see why 4 screws should not be able to do the job as long and the surfaces and connections are well designed. But I am a bit surprised they did not just go with the 2 band used in older metals. Maybe it would make them look too much like the old regs that are reasonably available for about the cost of an R190.
$700 takes my breath away.
I dive a number of old Scubapro metal 2nds. They do scratch but not as easily as a plastic case. Mine were all purchase used and many were corroded (verdigris) from poor post dive cleaning. I have no problems with corrosion even with those regs where the chrome has been seriously damaged by wear and neglect.
I don't see why 4 screws should not be able to do the job as long and the surfaces and connections are well designed. But I am a bit surprised they did not just go with the 2 band used in older metals. Maybe it would make them look too much like the old regs that are reasonably available for about the cost of an R190.
$700 takes my breath away.
scuba.dude
Contributor
awap - thx for the info. More questions, if I may:
3x surface area - yeah, relatively speaking that's impactful. So no condensation on plastic, or just less condensation on plastic?
btw - they combined the pre-post dive & VIVA mechanism, right? Is this a (other than theoretical) failure point?
Metal - agreed re: plastic scratches easier -- I was thinking that you can scratch 50% thru plastic & no corrosion v. scratching thru the chrome plating & hitting bare brass beneath? Also, if your vintage reg is considerably thicker, the verdigris tolerance might be much higher than that based on current mfg practices? (Just re-read this - I have WAY TOO much time on my hands ... but if I'm supposed to keep this for 40+ years ...) Sounds like you're saying it's insignificant, right?
Agreed re: $700. I''ll pay for quality stuff, but man ... pure hubris.
3x surface area - yeah, relatively speaking that's impactful. So no condensation on plastic, or just less condensation on plastic?
btw - they combined the pre-post dive & VIVA mechanism, right? Is this a (other than theoretical) failure point?
Metal - agreed re: plastic scratches easier -- I was thinking that you can scratch 50% thru plastic & no corrosion v. scratching thru the chrome plating & hitting bare brass beneath? Also, if your vintage reg is considerably thicker, the verdigris tolerance might be much higher than that based on current mfg practices? (Just re-read this - I have WAY TOO much time on my hands ... but if I'm supposed to keep this for 40+ years ...) Sounds like you're saying it's insignificant, right?
Agreed re: $700. I''ll pay for quality stuff, but man ... pure hubris.
R
redacted
Guest
I'm not sure exactly what the problem is with plastic (heat transfer probably or maybe surface characteristics)) but I do get dry mouth when I use a plastic 2nd.
All parts are potential failure points. The old metals had no viva switch. I'm not sure it is of much value when you have user adjustable spring pressure on the poppet. But how can you sell a reg for $700 if it has less features than your $350 reg? Good engineering should avoid pattern failures due to design deficiencies.
Some of my older 2nd have sizable areas of missing chrome. As long as I clean them good at the end of a trip, I have had no problems. This corrosion does not for in hours or even over night.
A minor problem with plastic is it scratches much easier and may not "look good". I have never been too hung up with what a reg looks like. The real advantage is the durability of a metal case. Sit on it, drop it, let a tank set or fall over on it. The plastic case may easily crack and leak. The metal case might get an inconsequential dent. Some of mine have a few dents but no effect on performance.
All parts are potential failure points. The old metals had no viva switch. I'm not sure it is of much value when you have user adjustable spring pressure on the poppet. But how can you sell a reg for $700 if it has less features than your $350 reg? Good engineering should avoid pattern failures due to design deficiencies.
Some of my older 2nd have sizable areas of missing chrome. As long as I clean them good at the end of a trip, I have had no problems. This corrosion does not for in hours or even over night.
A minor problem with plastic is it scratches much easier and may not "look good". I have never been too hung up with what a reg looks like. The real advantage is the durability of a metal case. Sit on it, drop it, let a tank set or fall over on it. The plastic case may easily crack and leak. The metal case might get an inconsequential dent. Some of mine have a few dents but no effect on performance.
eliminator
Contributor
the guys at Atomic must be ROTFL
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