Training Scuba Ranch Incident Report

[boulderjohn]

Yeah, calling scuba instructors "professionals" never did sit well with me.

There are several definitions of the word "professional," depending upon the context of its use. One of them is...

• Someone who is paid to do an activity that others might do as a hobby.

Every few years I have my house painted by professionals rather than do it myself. I also let professional tree trimmers take care of the more significant work on my trees.

 

[cruiser]

Just saw this today.

Scuba expert says NTX 12-year-old's death was 'preventable,' highlights risky training

Multiple factors, including low visibility, the age of the dive partners, and a maxed-out student to instructor ratio is raising questions about the training practices.

www.fox4news.com

 

[dmaziuk]

Ok the “lost” computer…I’m still very new and don’t have my own. Do they not automatically sync the data? Like could the data have uploaded to his account?

Short answer: no.

 

[paddydiver]

And it is BoulderJohn's point that the shop usually dictates what the Instructor must do, or be fired.
I worked as an Independent Instructor (not possible with all agencies) and kept the ratios low...not as high as possible. You often have to charge more to afford to do that.

Then get fired. It's not like it's a high paying career for life. I've been both an independent Instructor and worked for shops. When it came to guiding or teaching kids there was no compromise. I'm the one in the water, I'll decide what a safe number is.

 

[kammel78]

We both agree that 8 students to 1 instructor and 1 DM is too many for low vis. But I’d break the class in half as a solution and only take 4 students (or fewer) in the water at a time.

In low vis it’s really hard for the instructor to be sure that they have all 8 students plus the DM accounted for. If the instructor has a good view of the 4 students and the DM has a good view of 4 students, do they have 8 in total or only 7, 6, 5 or 4? Especially if all the students are in matching shop rental gear and hard to tell apart.

Here in Vancouver I’ve never seen any Open Water class with more than 4 students to an instructor in the Ocean, and on poor vis days I’ve seen instructors break the class down to just 1 or 2 students at a time. Makes for a long day and lots of dives for the instructor.

100%. As an a local instructor who has taught there and every other crappy low vis lake you can think of around here. I would absolutely not teach more than 4:1 ratio. DMs are DMS, sorry but the bar is so low and often DMs have been divers for maybe a year. IMO, they cannot be counted on to help in an emergency. The basic math of when you add more people and space them out increases the distance from the instructor's line of sight of some students too far to be able to see and prevent accidents before they become full blown emergencies. The platforms are too small and the bottom is untouchable. It's not like a pool where you can circle 10 people around you, or even a sandy bottom in the ocean. I'd consider almost every cave diving class I've taught and participated in safer than the idea of teaching an OW class of 8, including multiple kids, with myself and a DM at the Scuba Ranch, fwiw.

Relatives, SO, friends,... of student can be such a real pain when teaching (sometimes just by the distraction they generate by their presence, sometimes by their interference) that having them absent when they aren't students as well is IMO a very reasonable policy.

Also 100%. I will refuse non class relatives as well and have at times separated significant others in a class. The extra stress and anxiety that an overbearing parent puts on their child is wildly unhelpful. The pressure I've seen husbands put on their wives, parents on kids to "just do it" when they're so overwhelmed with anxiety and fear is absolutely dangerous. This goes 100% against our mantra of we don't pressure anyone to dive. Find any other type of training that allows parents in the room with kids and instructor. They don't and for a very good reason, so let's kindly stop with the "parents should have" nonsense.

 

[johndiver999]

100%. As an a local instructor who has taught there and every other crappy low vis lake you can think of around here. I would absolutely not teach more than 4:1 ratio. DMs are DMS, sorry but the bar is so low and often DMs have been divers for maybe a year. IMO, they cannot be counted on to help in an emergency. The basic math of when you add more people and space them out increases the distance from the instructor's line of sight of some students too far to be able to see and prevent accidents before they become full blown emergencies. The platforms are too small and the bottom is untouchable. It's not like a pool where you can circle 10 people around you, or even a sandy bottom in the ocean. I'd consider almost every cave diving class I've taught and participated in safer than the idea of teaching an OW class of 8, including multiple kids, with myself and a DM at the Scuba Ranch, fwiw.


Also 100%. I will refuse non class relatives as well and have at times separated significant others in a class. The extra stress and anxiety that an overbearing parent puts on their child is wildly unhelpful. The pressure I've seen husbands put on their wives, parents on kids to "just do it" when they're so overwhelmed with anxiety and fear is absolutely dangerous. This goes 100% our mantra of we don't pressure anyone to dive. Find any other type of training that allows parents in the room with kids and instructor. They don't and for a very good reason, so let's kindly stop with the "parents should have" nonsense.

Nonsense? What is sensical about having a child become lost, drowned and abandoned by your fellow "professional", certified instructor?

My point was.. "I would have". Absolutely, I would not let my child do a dive like that without my immediate attention.

If I had to search to find an instructor that agreed to provide a private class (and allow me to be in the water)- then so be it.

Separating adults, spouses or even parent/child open water students is understandable, reasonable and probably very common, but again, that is not the relevant situation that I am describing.

However, for me (being a certified and experienced diver) I would be there for the open water class dives,

Just think how easy it would be for a 250-lb panicked student to over power a small 13-yr old girl? Even if your child is perfect, she is still especially vulnerable. They certify now at what.. 10 yrs old based on the best judgement of "professionals"?

In my opinion, NOBODY should be teaching pre-teen children to scuba dive in open water unless the child is quite literally exceptional. Exceptional in discipline, motivation, maturity, watermanship skills and also be intelligent enough to adequately grasp the academic concepts and apply them to life or death consequences. Kinda like the exceptional little kids who can ride motocross or do high level gymnastics - they ARE unusual.

I know parents and SO's can be a problem when training (especially in the pool) but it is not unreasonable for an instructor to have a good sit down with the certified parent to explain that they will be expected to STFU and be invisible (unless there is a life or death emergency involving their child).

I don't think I could be convinced that this is not the appropriate approach for certified (and qualified) parents who want to have their pre-teen or young teen certified.

I guess if this terrible incident is not enough to convince certified parents to at least consider, being present on an OW training dive, then I doubt I can formulate a more convincing argument.

 

[kammel78]

The instructor's actions are impossible for me to relate to, as well as the parents (who are divers).

You literally lumped the parents in the same category as the instructor. That is nonsense.

You are free to have your own "standards". Cool, as a parent do what you feel is necessary. This, "it never would have happened to me because I wouldn't do..." is not helpful. If you feel the standards that allow teaching kids that age or in that ratio is dangerous, then I will help you paint the signs and sign petitions, but putting that on parents is misguided. You're putting the onus on either parents or students being "exceptional" instead of instructors being "exceptional" or standards being tighter. I'm sure you don't mean it this way, but it's back handed victim blaming.

For your argument to work, you have to assume that parents would be an asset and not a liability in a class with their child and assuming that some kind of sit down "talk" with a parent would in any way change their actions later in the moment, is, I'm sorry, naive. I know plenty of divers who feel they're "qualified" who would absolutely be a liability. How would you even vet that?

Regardless, I've taught 10, 11, 12 yr olds in that very lake. They weren't "exceptional" in the sense you mean. I just applied the same basic fundamentals any good diver is taught: know your limits, respect the environmental variables, adapt your dive plan to prioritize safety.

The problem that no one wants to admit is that there is no financial incentive for training agencies, dive shops, instructors, or even sites like the SR to enforce stricter standards that would effectively decrease profitability in an already dying industry - and the number of Linneas and Dylans is too small, financially speaking, to encourage systemic change. Especially when they can lay all the blame on the instructor and walk away ignoring their own actions that allowed those instructors to exist.

 

[TostitoBandito]

The problem that no one wants to admit is that there is no financial incentive for training agencies, dive shops, instructors, or even sites like the SR to enforce stricter standards that would effectively decrease profitability in an already dying industry - and the number of Linneas and Dylans is too small, financially speaking, to encourage systemic change. Especially when they can lay all the blame on the instructor and walk away ignoring their own actions that allowed those instructors to exist.

This right here. Also why the investigation will be swept under the rug and closed as quickly as possible. Gotta keep certifying more divers!