Save Giftun Island RED SEA

[fgray1]

We only have around 100 years worth of data to go by the rest is pure guess work. One volcano can cause more damage than the entire population of the world. My problem is that the typical activist care more about some animal that has no respect for anything simply because of the nature of the beast. If a animal causes the extinction of a species it called an act of nature. He spend literally millions of dollars a year to save something that under natures rules would be gone but improve a humans life, Heck No we're all evil and we should bow to nature. Activists need to take a reality check. Humans are at the top of the food chain. They may not like it but that's the way it is.
Trying to predict what will happen to the world is foolish. Neither the scientist or all the activist have any idea what will happen.
It's all pure guess work using data that makes no sense.
Last year it was global warming this year it's global cooling.
I prefer to live my short life enjoying myself and not worrying about some island or some spieces that no matter what the out come will change anything. I'd rather provide jobs and income to people so their lifestyle might improve maybe the children will have shoes to wear or learn to read.
Anyway Humans are more important than animals in my book

 

[divebunnie]

I don't think you actually got anything that I just said.

I have already mentioned that the reason that many of us are concerned about our impact on the environment is for the benefit of the human race. It may well not affect you in your short, fun life, however as I have mentioned our children may well have to survive in a very different world to the one to which we have become accustomed.

I appreciate that there are many extremists who have no care for the life of a human, that is not what I am about. In fact the project I was involved with was very much involved with improving the life of the people with whom we were working. On that specific project our aim was to preserve the fish supply so that they would still have food in 20 years' time and that they could in fact make a small living so as to supply themselves with luxuries such as shoes.

I am just saying that we need to be aware that as top dog, we are running the risk of causing our own demise by devouring so much of the world's resources. And as we are living in two of the most greedy of the nations we need to be aware that our consumption of these resourses is particularly devastating in its effect on the world and its future.

Going back to the island in question. There are already plenty of hotels in that area, tourism is huge, there is no need for another rash of buildings that will destroy the very reef that the tourists are there to visit. As divers, this is of concern to us. I am somewhat surprised to come across a diver who appears to have no awareness of the issues relating to this.

On all levels I am just asking you to look at the long-term effects of our behaviour.

I appreciate that a hurricane or volcano will cause more damage than many of us could ever possibly create, however why should we as the more intelligent and aware of the species on this planet, knowingly cause such unnecessary damage to our planet? If we have the benefit of this knowledge and awareness, is it not criminal if we do not curb our behaviour a touch?

 

[fgray1]

No one knows. I think nature will take care of us.
If we as humans turn stupid then we will become extinct.
But I believe we're smart enough to balance it out.
I have faith the we will do the right thing. It's just that my right thing and the average activist right thing are at other opposite ends of the spectrum.
People seem to forget that 100 or so years ago our life span was only 40 to 50 years. Now 70 to 80 is the norm.
I think I'll take progress.
As far as our kids are concerned they are smarter than me in the years to come they will be old enough to make decisions for the future long before we in our short life span can mess things up.
I have faith in mankind.
I refuse to believe those who run around and say "THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING"

 

[divebunnie]

Ok I agree with some of what you say, nature has its way of dealing with things.

I am not an extremist by any stretch of the imagination, I just think we should actually use the intelligence that we have been given to curb our impact even a little. Yes it is great that we now live twice as long as before, however that means that each person consumes twice as much. Fine if you live a simple life not so fine, if you are a typical Brit or American living the consumer lifestyle of which I myself am also guilty.

Balance is a good thing and that is what we should maybe aim for.

I hope nature does take care of us, however surely we can care a little too and give nature a bit of a helping hand.

Anyway, I wish you well, I need to get on and actually do some work!

 

[fgray1]

Anyway, I wish you well, I need to get on and actually do some work!

Me too.
None of this was directed at you personally.
Thanks for the peaceful discussion.
Fred

 

[Mako Mark]

Wow, that is the best neo malthusian tail chasing I have heard in ages Fred and Divebunny.

Here is my 2c.

If you want to conserve something, you have to lock it up and throw away the key. As divers (and humans) we enjoy wilderness locations. Our presence in those wilderness locations ultimately lead to their demise. The uncertain balance between conservation and recreation is an old one, and no amount of flag waving or tree hugging will stop the exploitative development of pristine ares for tourism.

What will change these developments is if the tree huggers and flag wavers get of their butts and prove the long term economic profitability of conserving the area in question.

Failure to do this is called the "tragedy of the commons" and until you understand this fundemental concept of resource management you will be considered a manatee loving, Tai chi jazz dance practicing, flag waving, tree hugging, fluffy seal saving activist.

If you want to be taken notice of, you need to base your decisions and arguments on science and economics, not emotion.

Divebunny: Fish are food, get used to it.

Fred: humans will survive the present oil crisis as we did the opec crisis of the 70's, get used to it.

 

[mania]

If you want to be taken notice of, you need to base your decisions and arguments on science and economics, not emotion.

maybe a bit different story but....
Mark is right - you have to take both science and economy together. Couple of years ago in the US in the beautiful spot around a lake some valuable recourses were discovered (I don't remember whether it was iron or copper). Group of scientists - ecologists - did a serious research (my Mum was part of it). So they did a survey among local but not only fisherman and tourists. The question was how much are they willing to pay to be able to go there fishing or spend a weekend camping. It turned out that the income state would get form them was higher than from mining this resource!!!!
So the spot remained industrialized but with the clear plan of how many fisherman and tourists can be allowed not to have the place destroyed by them.
This is a clever way of putting together science and economics!!!!
Mania

 

[fgray1]

Wow, that is the best neo malthusian tail chasing I have heard in ages Fred and Divebunny.

Here is my 2c.

If you want to conserve something, you have to lock it up and throw away the key. As divers (and humans) we enjoy wilderness locations. Our presence in those wilderness locations ultimately lead to their demise. The uncertain balance between conservation and recreation is an old one, and no amount of flag waving or tree hugging will stop the exploitative development of pristine ares for tourism.

What will change these developments is if the tree huggers and flag wavers get of their butts and prove the long term economic profitability of conserving the area in question.

Failure to do this is called the "tragedy of the commons" and until you understand this fundemental concept of resource management you will be considered a manatee loving, Tai chi jazz dance practicing, flag waving, tree hugging, fluffy seal saving activist.

If you want to be taken notice of, you need to base your decisions and arguments on science and economics, not emotion.

Divebunny: Fish are food, get used to it.

Fred: humans will survive the present oil crisis as we did the opec crisis of the 70's, get used to it.

What does the oil crisis of the 70s have to do with any of our discusion?
Maybe I missed something here. Or are you confused.