San Diego Dive Fatality 9-29-09

[Oside Jimc]

I think it is interesting to note that there is q difference between
divers who are certified in cold water with an instructor present
vs a vacationing diver who was certified in warn water. We don't
have "orientation dives" or even a dive master who dives with you in Calif. but I think it would be a good
idea if more operators offered that for warm water divers.

I know for a fact that at least the Marissa offers an option to pay for a divemaster to take you on a guided dive for $25/dive I used this the first couple of dives with them to get back into the cold water game, cheap insurance in my book.

 

[CoralSeaMan]

From: but he was diving with a local scuba company that has a long history of boating violations.

He was diving off a vessel named the D&D II, one of three boats currently operated by Dive Connections, Inc. out of Mission Bay. News 8 has learned the company was involved in another fatal dive four years ago, while under different management."

I am curious if there is any general sense that this operation is actually unsafe or is this merely typical hype. I am scheduled to be on a dive with them in a couple of weeks. I am concerned.

 

[ItsBruce]

I'm intrigued by the report of "a long history of boating violations." I saw mention of only a fatality, four years ago while the operation was owned by someone else. What kind of violations? How long a history? Did the violations have anything to do with scuba safety? (I'm reminded of the fancy restaurant that was cited by the health department for unsanitary conditions because there was dust on the wine bottles in its wine cellar. Fine wine bottles are supposed to be dusty.)

And, as far as the prior fatality, I'd guess that the only thing in common was the name of the dive company and possibly its location. After 4 years under new ownership, I'd expect all the gear to have been replaced and all the personnel to have changed. So, what is the relationship other than typical media hype?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

If you are a competent and skilled diver there is really no need to be concerned. The way the op runs is of little concern unless you expect them to keep safe on your dive. I look at every op as a taxi service. Get me to the site and back safely. Other than that it's my responsibility to plan, execute, and return safely to the boat. If that is beyond anyone's ability they should stay on shore. He was overweighted and ran out of air according to the report. That is no one's fault but his own and perhaps that of his training if he was not taught proper weighting and gas management. Unless the operator was also falsely claiming as the seemingly increasing number of Caribbean ops do that all the dives they do are safe because a DM or "Guide" is in the water and he fell for that line of BS. And the report about the op's problems is horsecrap anyway. They cite a fatality 4 YEARS AGO UNDER DIFFERENT MANAGEMENT! ***! Typical media sensationalism.

 

[ItsBruce]

I agree with K_girl about DMs and guides.

When I travel and dive while on a trip (as compared with scheduling just a dive trip), most of the divers I see are once-a-year-warm-water divers. Most rely on gear supplied by the dive operator. Everyone naturally assumes that there will be a dive guide. A dive guide will have only a limited ability to keep a diver out of trouble, but, by guiding the dive, may keep divers away from some possible hazards or from getting lost.

On such dives, I rarely see local divers who are just out for a dive. (I'm not sure where they go.)

In SoCal, most divers are not once-a-year divers vacation divers. Most do not rely on gear supplied by the dive operator. Those that rent, rent from a shop, and may or may not schedule the dive through the shop. Even when they schedule the dive through a shop, the shop rarely owns and operates the boat.

As a result, most divers I've seen in SoCal are more sophisticated than those I see while on vacation. Thus, I rarely, if ever, see dive guides or DMs in the water.

But, for the once-a-year vacation diver who comes to SoCal for vacation and then wants to do a dive, the lack of a guide will likely come as an unpleasant surprise. That, plus water that is colder than many dive destinations, could easily lead to accidents and incidents. I think shops that more operators should warn customers from out of the area that there are not guides.

 

[dave4868]

I am curious if there is any general sense that this operation is actually unsafe or is this merely typical hype. I am scheduled to be on a dive with them in a couple of weeks. I am concerned.

I consider my own safety to be my responsibility, so there's usually very little a dive op can do to make things unsafe, short of gross negligence, of course.

What are your specific concerns or expectations regarding this or any dive op?

If you use your own good judgment and good skills, you should be fine, right?

Dave C

 

[ItsBruce]

I also agree with Jim to an extent. However, Jim is a good, experienced diver and instructor. For Jim and many others a dive op is just a taxi service. I agree. But, a once-a-year vacation diver who usually does that one dive in tropical water does not REALLY have the skills or training to plan and execute a safe dive. ... Gosh, we're back to agency and training bashing!

 

[mbwilliamn]

I have no idea what happened or if this is even relevant, but I've dived from small boats like zodiacs and pangas where I have had to remove my BC before getting back into the boat, and the order of things is super important: keep reg in mouth, inflate BC, remove weights, put weights in boat. Attach BC to boat (with clips, etc.), remove BC. Make sure you are buoyant without BC, then remove reg from mouth. Keep fins on and kick up into the boat.

Removing a BC while still wearing a weight belt is a scary thought.

I had a novice DM in the Bahamas start to "help" my 11 year old (with 80 dives) out of his gear before removing his Wt belt. As I started toward them, my son pulled the DMs mask off and pushed him away. Potentially very dangerous situation, but his training (and thinking) kicked in.

 

[bsee65]

Guys, everyone who has had good training or read a few posts on this board gets it. The diver, and solely the diver, is responsible for his/her safety. There should be a capable buddy there to assist and be assisted should any need arise. The dive op should be nothing more than a water taxi that has and shares local knowledge.

The problem is that there are a large quantity of divers who haven't had good training, or at least didn't absorb the lessons. There are quite a few divers who expect that the dive op will also be responsible at some level for planning the dive, leading/controlling the dive, and for their safety in the water.

I can't believe there is a dive op on the planet that doesn't realize this to be true. A dive op that doesn't address this issue is making a big mistake, and probably worthy of being called "unsafe." They could put it in their sales information, discuss it with potential clients directly or anything else. It should be clear before anyone boards a boat, and it has to be clear before anyone ddrops into the water. Whether it is one client in ten or one in a hundred, if there's a diver on the boat with the misconception that the DM is there to watch and protect them in the water, then that diver is going to be a higher risk of accident than those who expect to be self-sufficient.

This sounds like another opportunity for Jim to write a paper that people can use.

 

[Leejnd]

To all who are interested in this incident - there is a VERY interesting and (possibly) illuminating comment thread beneath the article about this accident on the CBS8 website. Click here:

Scuba dive company in fatal accident has history of violations - San Diego, California News Station - KFMB Channel 8 - cbs8.com

Note that the comments read from bottom to top, so to get the full gist of it, read from the bottom.

There is someone calling himself San Diego Pro Diver posting some VERY inflammatory stuff about the dive op. He seems to have direct, first-hand knowledge of the incident, and his description of what happened differs greatly from the official reports. Here is an excerpt:

Daniel Forchione surfaced after completing his dive. He may have low on air or out of air but that is not relevant because he was at the surface. Once at the surface he made his way to the back of the dive boat to get assistance. He then went on to remove his scuba unit under the supervision of a non-certified divemaster. He was never told to remove his weight belt first. Once his scuba gear was off he began to sink. He was wearing a 3mm wetsuit in 68 degree water which is actually too thin for this climate. He was weighted for a 7mm wetsuit. Once he began to sink the person on board to supervise, Robert Eills, attempted to grab Mr Forchione and hold him above the surface. He was not able to hang on very long and Mr Forchione never released his weight belt nor was he instructed to do so. As a result, Mr. Forchione sank to the bottom of the ocean and was left there until medical personel arrived. This diving accident is a tragedy. It could have been prevented and someone is responsible. This is not a result of diver error as was the incident with Waterhorse Charters the following day. If there would have been trained personnel on board Mr. Forchione would still be living today and would be able to go home to his wife and baby. This is absolutely a terrible terrible tragedy for this family and I as well as the diving community of San Diego are deeply saddened.

He goes on to provide some very startling details about the owner of the dive op...most of which are completely irrelevant to this incident, but if true, are pretty damning. Anyone who is considering using this dive op might want to do some investigating. The commenter has offered to have a direct discussion by email with anyone who is interested.

I want to add a caveat there that I have NO idea who this Pro Diver person is, and whether or not any of the information he has posted is true.

I am the LeeAnne who also commented in that thread. I was horrified to see people who clearly know nothing about SoCal diving, immediately publicly trashing the dive operator. I do not know the dive op - I live in Ventura County and have never dived with him. But based solely on the official reports so far, there is ZERO reason to blame the dive op - everything that has been reported to have gone wrong was, IMO, solely the diver's own responsibility.

Even if Pro Diver's account turns out to be true, most of what went wrong STILL is the diver's responsibility. But if it's all true, then the dive op most certainly was negligent in some ways, and should be held accountable.