San Diego Dive Fatality 9-29-09

[gcbryan]

I don't want this to sound like I'm picking on you (because I'm not trying to) but . . .

I think what you meant to say was "gross stupidity" or something like that.

"Gross negligence" is a legal term that's essentially used when you're blaming someone else for whatever happened to the victim. (I do expert witness work so I may be overly sensitive to this.)

So the cases that we generally discuss here (see the national numbers/trends I've detailed in the Catalina death thread) involve a preponderence of diver error, not negligence on someone else's part that caused the person to die.

- Ken

That works for me as well. Since I was being very direct I attempted to at least be polite.

I understand the legal use of negligence however it can be used as I did as well. If I breath my tank down to zero I am being negligent (in my duties to myself) and in a gross way.

 

[ItsBruce]

I am amazed at the divergence of opinions on weights inside versus outside the crotch strap among those whom I most respect for their insights and thoughts.

 

[gcbryan]

I am amazed at the divergence of opinions on weights inside versus outside the crotch strap among those whom I most respect for their insights and thoughts.

I suspect (in part) it involves the temperature of the water in their areas and therefore the amount of weight on the belt in the first place.

With a heavy belt you are more likely to want it on your waist first and in the best location. You are also less likely to want to play around with a heavy belt after you already have a heavy tank on your back.

If you are in warmer water and are using less on the belt then it may not matter as much.

What really matters in any event is that you be able to release it if necessary regardless of where it is worn.

 

[mpgunner]

Interesting reading this thread. The weight difference between my trips to HI versus Seattle is amazing.

 

[Thalassamania]

I am amazed at the divergence of opinions on weights inside versus outside the crotch strap ...

The problem is that it is a decision chain, one thing predicates another and changes the basis of the decision in a substantial way. Frankly, if I had never been exposed to any other style of weightbelt and was stuck using the thread through lever action type of buckle that most people use I'd be most concerned about accidentally loosing the belt and thus I'd favor shoulder staps and crotch straps and anything else that would help prevent my making a rapid, unplanned ascent. But once I start using a wire or SeaQuest buckle, the situation shifts, now I don't have to worry about accidentally loosing my weights and now making sure that I can drop my weights as easily as possible can become a concern, because my fear of accidental ascent is gone.

 

[CompuDude]

I am curious if there is any general sense that this operation is actually unsafe or is this merely typical hype. I am scheduled to be on a dive with them in a couple of weeks. I am concerned.

I won't dive with them anymore since my last experience with them about a year ago, nor will many friends and dive buddies who used to frequent the boat when it was under other management.

For what that's worth.

In your shoes, I'd look to purchase a spot on another boat, but that's your call.

 

[mbwilliamn]

I won't dive with them anymore since my last experience with them about a year ago, nor will many friends and dive buddies who used to frequent the boat when it was under other management.

For what that's worth.

In your shoes, I'd look to purchase a spot on another boat, but that's your call.

Looks like there is a video on YouTube related to this incident. Appears to be a local news report. YouTube - Scuba dive company in fatal accident has history of violations

 

[gcbryan]

The problem is that it is a decision chain, one thing predicates another and changes the basis of the decision in a substantial way. Frankly, if I had never been exposed to any other style of weightbelt and was stuck using the thread through lever action type of buckle that most people use I'd be most concerned about accidentally loosing the belt and thus I'd favor shoulder staps and crotch straps and anything else that would help prevent my making a rapid, unplanned ascent. But once I start using a wire or SeaQuest buckle, the situation shifts, now I don't have to worry about accidentally loosing my weights and now making sure that I can drop my weights as easily as possible can become a concern, because my fear of accidental ascent is gone.

I remember reading about this belt before. It sounds like a good idea however I've never had any problem with a SS lever type buckle used with a proper (thick) sized webbing belt. That is no problem given that I use a trilam drysuit so no compression. I have to press rather hard to get the buckle closed in the first place.

Is the problem that you refer to due more to use with wetsuits or other compressing materials? I can understand not using a flimsy plastic buckle. Just curious. I of course get the naturally compressing ability of a rubber belt.

For what it's worth, using my belt under the crotch strap has very little to do with me worrying about losing the belt but I think in the general scheme of things most people consider it a bigger issue to lose a belt at depth than to have to take a second to get it off at the surface.

 

[Thalassamania]

I remember reading about this belt before. It sounds like a good idea however I've never had any problem with a SS lever type buckle used with a proper (thick) sized webbing belt. That is no problem given that I use a trilam drysuit so no compression. I have to press rather hard to get the buckle closed in the first place.

Is the problem that you refer to due more to use with wetsuits or other compressing materials? I can understand not using a flimsy plastic buckle. Just curious. I of course get the naturally compressing ability of a rubber belt.

For what it's worth, using my belt under the crotch strap has very little to do with me worrying about losing the belt but I think in the general scheme of things most people consider it a bigger issue to lose a belt at depth than to have to take a second to get it off at the surface.

I've seen the entire closure lever pop out of even the best SS buckles, especially when you have to press hard to close it, that puts great strain on the two tabs that provide the hinge points, so please be very careful.

Yes, this is more of an issue with something compressible, but even with a membrane suit it makes a difference.

I have to agree that it a bigger issue to lose a belt at depth than to have to take a second to get it off at the surface. But you can make it much more difficult to lose a belt at depth AND you can make it much faster to get it off at the surface. Both criteria are better met by a change to a rubber belt with a wire buckle or a SeaQuest belt.

 

[Ayisha]

Thalassamania, Is that Seaquest weight belt still available? It appears that it is discontinued?