Sadly, the time has come...

[danvolker]

There is gear that is superior on the boat, and there is gear that is superior in the water while diving. Amazingly, I have actually seen divers that bought into the nonsense fins that fold up on your shin, to make walking easy....the fact that they are pathetic in the water, does not seem to deter these divers. Me, I will need to exercise a little more effort, to walk on the boat with my big diveR freedive fins, but once in the water, I can move around more like a barracuda, while they have to move around more like a nudibranch.

The drysuit is an extreme liability in the water, if you have to swim any kind of distance. It will either ruin your SAC rate to keep up with slick wetsuited divers, or , you won't be able to keep up, unless they wait for you constantly--which is what usually happens in S fl if a mixed group is put together.


Even more telling, on a drift dive a dry suit diver, and a slick wetsuit diver, can stop in the sand just off a reef, and lie down on the bottom to look at a macro creature on an outcrop....the 2 or 3 mph current just blows over the slick wetsuited diver, who really does not feel the drag of the current---while the poor Dry suit diver, has the current grabbing on to the fabric of the dry suit, and all its volume, with the result that the Dry suit diver keeps getting bowled over by the current...the current the wetsuit diver is barely aware of...

Of course, there are places in the world where this distinction is not relevant....I am posting this, for all the newbies that might just hear from the local shop, that the dry suit is the "be all", and "end all", to thermal comfort....In some places, yes..in other places, no way.

 

[tajkd]

The drysuit is an extreme liability in the water, if you have to swim any kind of distance. It will either ruin your SAC rate to keep up with slick wetsuited divers, or , you won't be able to keep up, unless they wait for you constantly--which is what usually happens in S fl if a mixed group is put together.


Even more telling, on a drift dive a dry suit diver, and a slick wetsuit diver, can stop in the sand just off a reef, and lie down on the bottom to look at a macro creature on an outcrop....the 2 or 3 mph current just blows over the slick wetsuited diver, who really does not feel the drag of the current---while the poor Dry suit diver, has the current grabbing on to the fabric of the dry suit, and all its volume, with the result that the Dry suit diver keeps getting bowled over by the current...the current the wetsuit diver is barely aware of...

Of course, there are places in the world where this distinction is not relevant....I am posting this, for all the newbies that might just here from the local shop, that the dry suit is the be all, and end all to thermal comfort....In some places, yes..in other places, no way.

hmmm... "an extreme liability". laughable

Yes, there are pros and cons with the drysuit. A well-fitted tropical drysuit has only slightly more drag than a well-fitted wetsuit. How many dives would this actually be an advantage?

Who is swimming and expending energy during a dive anyway? Relaxation, proper form, and correct weighting are the key to lowering SCR no matter what suit you have. It always amazes me that those unfamiliar operators always assume I need more weight with the tropical drysuit but, the fact is, I use much less than many of the wetsuit users on the boat.

And we haven't even begun to list the advantages drysuit diving has over wetsuit though.

 

[danvolker]

hmmm... "an extreme liability". laughable

Yes, there are pros and cons with the drysuit. A well-fitted tropical drysuit has only slightly more drag than a well-fitted wetsuit. How many dives would this actually be an advantage?

Who is swimming and expending energy during a dive anyway? Relaxation, proper form, and correct weighting are the key to lowering SCR no matter what suit you have. It always amazes me that those unfamiliar operators always assume I need more weight with the tropical drysuit but, the fact is, I use much less than many of the wetsuit users on the boat.

And we haven't even begun to list the advantages drysuit diving has over wetsuit though.

I don't think you have done enough adventure diving around the world to make your sweeping generalizations.
For NJ dives going down an anchor line to a wreck, and crawling on all fours like a billy goat, while you dig for artifacts or trinkets, yes, the Dry suit could be a huge advantage.
Whether South florida, or Puerto Rico ( Mona Passage), Fiji, or many dozens of other top adventures sites where ocean currents flow over fantastic coral reefs, you have both "drifting" and swimming--as you don't always go exactly where the current is drifting you....you are not really supposed to be a "leaf in the wind"...though this does often happen to Dry suit divers in places with 3 t 5 mph drift currents, like Jupiter , fl.
[video=youtube_share;qeQp5aqy2_s]http://youtu.be/qeQp5aqy2_s?t=7m38s[/video]

Start the cursor at 7 minutes and 38 seconds in to this Jupiter video

....Current over 3 mph, and conditions like this bring in huge volumes of marine life of all sizes. Some days it will blow over 5 mph here.
You can see how the current forces the big Goliath grouper to swim at a 45 degree angle to it, just as it does us...
Many of my buddies, and I, have drysuits we are forced to use for deeper dives--the 160 to 300 foot stuff. Wetsuits are like paper at that depth, and so Drysuits are the only way to go at these depths.
This Jupiter dive is only around 100 feet deep, and the slickness of the wetsuits allow us to move around "WHERE" the big Goliaths are, so we can get good shots....
"TRUST ME"...I have done these Jupiter dives with my TLS 350 ( custom fit) on, with my big DiveR fins....even with the huge power of the DiveR's, you can't move around well enough to capture the footage that I want, with a Dry suit on....and on the day of this video, obviously I am wearing a slick wetsuit, and I am able to move around where ever the action appears to be going..and get into position before the action is over.
I absolutely agree that you don't want to expend much energy on a dive, especially the 100 to 300 foot deep dives....air/gas, goes way to fast if your heart rate goes up from exertion.
With the slick wetsuit and DiveR freedive fins, and slimline bp/wing, I can kick once, and glide 10 feet....kick and glide keeps my heart rate at resting pulse level, under 60 bpm....but the big push from each kick, and lack of drag from the wetsuit, allows a significant speed to be averaged. If I do need to pick it up to get in front of a jewfish, for a shot, my suit does not slow me down, so I can often move exactly as fast as I would like to.

 

[tajkd]

I don't think you have done enough adventure diving around the world to make your sweeping generalizations.
For NJ dives going down an anchor line to a wreck, and crawling on all fours like a billy goat, while you dig for artifacts or trinkets, yes, the Dry suit could be a huge advantage.
Whether South florida, or Puerto Rico ( Mona Passage), Fiji, or many dozens of other top adventures sites where ocean currents flow over fantastic coral reefs, you have both "drifting" and swimming--as you don't always go exactly where the current is drifting you....you are not really supposed to be a "leaf in the wind"...though this does often happen to Dry suit divers in places with 3 t 5 mph drift currents, like Jupiter , fl.

"TRUST ME"...I have done these Jupiter dives with my TLS 350 ( custom fit) on, with my big DiveR fins....even with the huge power of the DiveR's, you can't move around well enough to capture the footage that I want, with a Dry suit on....and on the day of this video, obviously I am wearing a slick wetsuit, and I am able to move around where ever the action appears to be going..and get into position before the action is over.
I absolutely agree that you don't want to expend much energy on a dive, especially the 100 to 300 foot deep dives....air/gas, goes way to fast if your heart rate goes up from exertion.
With the slick wetsuit and DiveR freedive fins, and slimline bp/wing, I can kick once, and glide 10 feet....kick and glide keeps my heart rate at resting pulse level, under 60 bpm....but the big push from each kick, and lack of drag from the wetsuit, allows a significant speed to be averaged. If I do need to pick it up to get in front of a jewfish, for a shot, my suit does not slow me down, so I can often move exactly as fast as I would like to.

Picture of me in drysuit at Mona... yes, I have done enough dives around the world, in Coz, in Komodo, etc.


my Bahamas drift: [video=youtube;Z6B8q64-vDA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6B8q64-vDA[/video]

and, yes, I trust that you probably are better in a wetsuit than a drysuit. IMO the advantages for someone willing to purchase the right sized drysuit, get the proper training very much outweigh the few occasions most divers may feel the difference in current. And you can always exchange the drysuit for a particularly demanding drift dive. I've done this on occasion but perhaps I didn't need to. I ended up suffering in the end from cold that I experienced.

btw - not every NJ diver crawls around searching for trinkets. I'm mostly a hunter and proper buoyancy is very important. That imo can be achieved very well with a drysuit.

 

[danvolker]

Picture of me in drysuit at Mona... yes, I have done enough dives around the world, in Coz, in Komodo, etc.
View attachment 201189

my Bahamas drift: [video=youtube;Z6B8q64-vDA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6B8q64-vDA[/video]

and, yes, I trust that you probably are better in a wetsuit than a drysuit. IMO the advantages for someone willing to purchase the right sized drysuit, get the proper training very much outweigh the few occasions most divers may feel the difference in current. And you can always exchange the drysuit for a particularly demanding drift dive. I've done this on occasion but perhaps I didn't need to. I ended up suffering in the end from cold that I experienced.

btw - not every NJ diver crawls around searching for trinkets. I'm mostly a hunter and proper buoyancy is very important. That imo can be achieved very well with a drysuit.

Now I really like that dive site ( in the video)!

You need to do some Palm beach dives with me....both in Drysuit and in Wetsuit
If I can't make my point...that you might like some of these dives more with a wetsuit on...they I will pay for at least one of your boat trips
I am willing to make this bet, because every single person that has ever done some serious diving with Sandra, Bill Mee, and I, has arrived at the conclusion that for the dives we do, the slick wetsuit and bp/wing is the more optimal, more enjoyable way to go. So I'm not really risking too much

 

[tajkd]

It's a deal!

 

[RJP]

The drysuit is an extreme liability in the water, if you have to swim any kind of distance. It will either ruin your SAC rate to keep up with slick wetsuited divers, or , you won't be able to keep up, unless they wait for you constantly--which is what usually happens in S fl if a mixed group is put together.

Dan... you just make yourself sound silly by saying things like "a drysuit is an extreme liability in the water."

We've hashed this out before; yes, there are some circumstances where the minor incremental drag of a drysuit (I'm assuming that the drysuit fits properly) can be disadvantageous compared to a wetsuit. This will be especially true for people who are fat, out of shape, and/or have crappy propulsion technique. But I can't for the life of me see where the average diver would find one to be "an extreme liability in he water" in more than a handful of hypothetical situations.

I've dove my tropical drysuit in Mona, Galapagos, the back of Molokini, and even drifting in SoFla. Here I am as a "poor drysuit diver" in Boynton Beach. Notice how I am "getting bowled over by the current" as the water "grabs on to the fabric of the dry suit, and all its volume." It's a wonder I survived!

Maybe you need to try/buy a drysuit that actually fits? As you can see here, one that DOES fit doesn't flap in the breeze as you seem to believe.

---------- Post added January 14th, 2015 at 01:45 PM ----------

It's a deal!

And as tajkd's buddy... I'm coming too!

And I'll cover your cost for any dive where you need to wait for me.