I guess, having heard from both sides, there is little left to say. Further bashing and arguing won't go anywhere good. It seems that there was a mis-communication here and no fraud or deceit. I don't feel like it is my place to tell other people how to live, or how to dive. I do things differently than you and your son, but there are those here that would think badly of me just for diving with a pre-teen. You have to have a pretty thick skin on this forum.
Saba - be careful
- Thread starter fatherandsondiver
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firstdive2005
Contributor
All the authorities in diving limit youth depth. They are not 100% sure if it is physiologically safe on them. So therefore it makes sense not to go there. Any studies done have been on adults. Info generated for making the call on youth depth pretty much has been from accident reports. Also anecdotel accounts which should never be set aside unless your a fool. If I where to put my daughters to those depths at that age that would be experimenting with their lives and the outcome at later age on bone growth etc. That would make me unfit to be their guardian. And I would be a danger to them. Now I have done some wild things with my older daughter when we camping in the mountains, we rode down the mountain on our specialized bikes. We also wore body armour. She was 14. This particular father refuses to see the dangers he put his son in and would do it again if he can find a dive op to put his son in this particular danger. Nearly every reply was a plead to see that it would be better to wait just a little while longer. Mine included prior. We may be reading about his son getting hurt because of positive feedback like yours. There is a family at my lds that has young boys. Amazing divers, in the pool every week practicing skills. Man they are dialed up. Could they go to a deep depth and handle themselves efficiently in a sudden episode, I'm willing to bet the large they would do well. Their parents keep them to 60 and less. The boys have been taught the reason for it and are very cool with it. I am so proud of these parents and their relationship with their boys. By the way the kids earn their own money to buy their gear,and they are full tech. So did I judge him, maybe, but I judged myself first. The right call was to pull back the horns and teach his son a very cool life lesson. This has gone beyond diving.
Wait a minute.....you went down to the reef and your son stayed up at 60 ft?
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I'm still thinking about this. The father said he went down to the reef, leaving his 12 year old son at 60 ft depth above him. He felt terrible about it, but down he went to the reef. This was just a pleasure dive, remember? No real reason for the father to go down to the reef if the son couldn't....
Now, the father doesn't say exactly how deep he went, or how long he stayed there, but I'm just trying to figure out what was so important to the father to go down to the reef and leave his buddy/son up at 60 ft? Was it the father's dive that was so important or what?
Fine, maybe the son had a divemaster with him.....I'd have thought the joy in the diving would be shared by sticking together, not to mention the safety factor in staying close to your buddy, especially since it's his 12 year old son. If the son couldn't go down to the reef, why on earth wouldn't the father hang out with him?
Now, the father doesn't say exactly how deep he went, or how long he stayed there, but I'm just trying to figure out what was so important to the father to go down to the reef and leave his buddy/son up at 60 ft? Was it the father's dive that was so important or what?
Fine, maybe the son had a divemaster with him.....I'd have thought the joy in the diving would be shared by sticking together, not to mention the safety factor in staying close to your buddy, especially since it's his 12 year old son. If the son couldn't go down to the reef, why on earth wouldn't the father hang out with him?
Okay tag me, I'm in.
1. As an instructor and dive boat operator, I WILL stay within standards. Your child is not going to exceed standards on my boat, but I will take you and him as far as can be safely done according to experience, capability, and conditions. That sounds like what Saba did. You can break standards all you like, but my boats and personnel won't. Saying I will take you as deep as you are comfortable with, does Not mean breaking standards.
2. You left your buddy, your Child, at 60 ft while you went deeper to play on the reef? Wow. That was foolish and not good diving practice to teach him, as well as dangerous.
3. Don't think I am one of the screamers for no kids diving. My own 11 year old has 87 dives. She is advanced and a better diver than 90% of All divers I've seen, BUT she Will Not exceed her limits. SHE refuses, because I have always trained her to dive safely and stay within her limits and standards. My 13 yr old son- same way. So, I am All for letting kids dive properly and safely. They are your children, why push limits and even Possibly put them at unknown risk?
You had a good time. You had good dives. You weren't allowed to dive deep. So what? Quit trying to get your money back after you dove. The dive shop didn't do anything wrong. You heard what you wanted to hear. You shouldn't have looking to take your son that deep anyway. I will dive with Saba. They obey safety rules and diving regulations.
1. As an instructor and dive boat operator, I WILL stay within standards. Your child is not going to exceed standards on my boat, but I will take you and him as far as can be safely done according to experience, capability, and conditions. That sounds like what Saba did. You can break standards all you like, but my boats and personnel won't. Saying I will take you as deep as you are comfortable with, does Not mean breaking standards.
2. You left your buddy, your Child, at 60 ft while you went deeper to play on the reef? Wow. That was foolish and not good diving practice to teach him, as well as dangerous.
3. Don't think I am one of the screamers for no kids diving. My own 11 year old has 87 dives. She is advanced and a better diver than 90% of All divers I've seen, BUT she Will Not exceed her limits. SHE refuses, because I have always trained her to dive safely and stay within her limits and standards. My 13 yr old son- same way. So, I am All for letting kids dive properly and safely. They are your children, why push limits and even Possibly put them at unknown risk?
You had a good time. You had good dives. You weren't allowed to dive deep. So what? Quit trying to get your money back after you dove. The dive shop didn't do anything wrong. You heard what you wanted to hear. You shouldn't have looking to take your son that deep anyway. I will dive with Saba. They obey safety rules and diving regulations.
Whether the had a guide or DM with them is irrelevant. He had no business leaving his buddy and haring off. And you're right, why go where your buddy/son clearly can't? You Do Not leave your buddy. Selfish.
Yes, this afternoon the father's choice still seems as bad as it did last night. After my then 16 year old niece got her OW and then AOW, we still stuck together as a team. It was what she'd been taught to do, and it wasn't any sort of problem at all. If I wanted to do deeper dives when she was still OW and limited to 60 ft I'd do them without her. I wouldn't have been able to live with myself if something had happened.
On the other hand, this thread has shown to me that Sea Saba is a safety conscious organization, one I'd dive with any time.
Kudos to Sea Saba!!
On the other hand, this thread has shown to me that Sea Saba is a safety conscious organization, one I'd dive with any time.
Kudos to Sea Saba!!
Scuba Monster
Contributor
I agree. In this case, I don't understand the fixation on doing a deep dive, especially if there were potential risks for a 12 year old. Diving for me is about exploring the aquatic world, observing marine life, going slow, taking my time and discovering new things. You can dive that profile at any recreational diving depth. Diving is not about how deep I have gone, but it is about the experience of exploring a world beyond what many people don't get to see.
I did some research on this because I remembered it from some years ago, I have been teaching scuba since 1980 and i agree with wreck chick. Before you condemn the dive op check out the link below. i believe the instructor was only looking after the safety of your son and I applaud him for his decision. often times it is not left up the the instructor leading the dive who they should take. Some, not all dive op owners say do it or find another job, this might be the case in SABA. I agree they should have told you be fore you got there.
https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/faq/faq.aspx?faqid=132
https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/faq/faq.aspx?faqid=132
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