DownUnderDave
Registered
I am interested to know if either of the reports have been substantiated. Apart from the newspaper articles in Russian.
Russia - instructor caused divers death
- Thread starter spiderpig
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The Russian language dive board Tetis has over 16 pages (the setup is similar to Scuba Board) of discussion. They believe this is a real event. I have not yet been able to tell if there has been any resolution. I am still reading
StreetDoctor
Contributor
So this happened during the advanced open water course? Meaning they were already certified as divers. If they didn't feel comfortable with the dive they shouldn't have got in the water, not the instructors fault.
StreetDoctor
Contributor
No offense but... Bull$#@!. They were certified divers, if they weren't comfortable with the conditions they should have called the dives. If anything it sounds to me like they shouldn't have been certified in the first place. Poor visibility and cold water is no reason to freak out...
Tigerman
Contributor
We dont "protect" anyone, we look at the facts given and make our judgements based on that, just as anyone else.
As people have pointed out theres not really any violations of standards posted and the divers WHERE certified divers and as such have responsibility of making up their own mind about wether or not they should dive the given site at the given time.
Based on what youve posted (I dont read russian, sorry) theres probably been bad decisions made by the DI and there was also bad decisions made by other divers involved..
That being said I have issues with lots of russian divers anyways having seen how they act on their dive trips. Knocking off chunks of coral ON PURPOSE, lifting out items from wrecks and drinking vodka instead of water between dives give me loads of fait in them..
mts0628
Contributor
- Messages
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They lost me at:
В минувшее воскресенье...
sabbath999
Contributor
Thank goodness... I would have had to "freak out" on each of my last 50 dives if that were the case... is there such a thing as good visibility and warm water? I had 15 feet vis today and it was like being on holiday.
Below the the translated version (by yahoo's babel fish). It is very confusing to read some parts but I've posted to add on to the information provided by spiderpig. Take note to be very conservative in your analysis given inaccuracies in translation, and this is not first hand information.
Note of the moderator: In this [topike] it is permitted only:
- information about everything, concerning [CHP] by direct participants and those, who refer to [CHP];
- condolence;
- the proposal of aid to the family of that been killed and the consideration of the methods of her assignment.
For considering other or what questions, connected with [CHP] is created separate [topik], where are carried out not corresponding to that point out aboveed posts from this theme.
The questions [D].[V]. to Orlov about the incident on July 12 in Save- Kamenka you can pose in special [topike].
Fenix
In the past on Sunday July 12, in Save- Kamienski to career disappeared under water [name], 1961 of generation, that dived in the group of 4 [dayverov] under the management of [frilans]- instructor [name+#] within the framework course AOWD. Entire previous day, on July 11, group in the same composition completed with [name] 3 sinkings in the quarry to depth 17 m. in the morning on July 12 group after briefing it was immersed at the depth of 17 m: in front with the instructor sailed the first pair of less experimental [dayverov], after them immediately sailed the second pair of more experimental [dayverov]. [Victim] swam in the second pair. 5 min after the beginning of sinking the instructor was forced to urgently raise one pair to the surface and to transmit to its insuring boat Dive-[tsentra]. Another pair did not float, after remaining on the bottom. [instructor] went down on the bubbles downward; however, he found only one of the partners, who sat on the spot and he did not know, where to separate [victim]. [victim] raised it to the surface. Simultaneously 20 m of them to the surface rose [victim], something shouted, it slapped in the water by hand and again it left under the water. Instructor went down under the water in this place, but no one he found. Insuring from the boat Dive-[tsentra], the located in the place sinkings, bubbles no longer saw. All sinkings in the quarry were ended, while all instructors, who were being found on the territory of quarry, were mobilized to the searches for that disappeared. Was caused first aid, police and MChS (emergency and disaster relief ministry). Searches by the forces of instructors and search brigade of MChS conducted to the darkness. In the morning on July 13 to the searches were caused the regular instructors of the group Of ruDIVE, but searches were futile, until now: [name] is not discovered.
That disappeared was dressed in the dry suit Of northland, the waistcoat Of black Of diamond, the regulator Of legend - all the equipment new, its own. Is given below the detailed report of instructor [name] about the extraordinary accident, on the basis which its action in this stress situation can be qualified as correct.
According to the reports of instructor and witnesses, [victim] after was radiated with the group and its partner, did not rise to the surface after 1 min, but it went downward along the slope. Then it, swim match of approximately 20 m, rose to the surface and could not hold the positive buoyancy: possibly, because of the expenditure of air in the balloon and the stress, as a result of which it could not drop cargo pockets and blow waistcoat by mouth.
[Dayverskoe] association grieves about this tragedy and is expressed deep sympathy to the family of that disappeared, which was on the shore quarry at the moment [CHP] and it is now located on the spot search operations. All sinkings in the quarry are abolished to the complete explanation of reasons and circumstances of incident. The searches for that disappeared continue.
Detailed report of instructor [name] about extraordinary accident 12.07.2009
I, [name], 11.07.2009 V Dive-[tsentre] “saved - Kamenka” was carried out course AOWD for 4 people. With our acquaintance we conducted the necessary, standard procedures: filling of the forms of release in the limits of admissible risk, medical form, checking certificates.
The first sinking it resembled on the course [RRV]. In 11-30 we entered into the water. The depth of our sinking composed 15 meters, visibilities of 3 meters, the temperature of water of 10 degrees, thermoclines - 8 meters.
Group was broken into two pairs. In the first dispatch the husband with the wife (name,name), the secondly in man (name,name). Sinking is past excellent. I saw the level of the preparation of each of [dayverov]. In both pairs they were on one [name] with the outstanding possession the habits of sinking. During the sinking and after it everyone felt itself excellently, reaction for the sinking - adequate. 20 min. under water were conducted.
The second sinking on the course of navigation it was carried out during the same day (entrance into the water in 15 h.). Depth of 8 meters, conditions the same. Each of [divers?] showed the outstanding habits of the possession of compass. All returned to the point, from where they left. Sinking continued for 30 min.
Last sinking on this day was passed in the night time. Time of the beginning of [?] 22-00. students excellently showed themselves in the mastery of the technology of the supply of signals by lamp, and adequately they reacted to the surrounding situation. There were whatever or signs of stress had whom. Ground time was 20 min.
After the first day for itself I composed idea about each of the students.
In the first pair, where they were husband and wife, I saw that in [wife] the problems in the psychological plan can arise. On the contrary, [husband] behaved very confidently and quietly. In the second pair of what or problems I did not see, but was felt different experience in the sinkings, in [name] it was much higher. As I explained, in [victim]was the still wide experience of sinkings in the Navies - to the enthusiasm [?] as leisure.
Before each sinking and after it were conducted the briefings, at which let out a secret not only the fact that we will make, but also the safety regulations (in particular, “rule 1 of minute” with the loss of partner under water and the need for following air in the balloon).
12.07.2009 in 11.30 h we were gathered for the fourth sinking. Briefing was conducted, they were determined with the place of the entrance into the water, the direction, the conditions, repeated signals, safety regulations. Plan they developed such - we enter from the boat in the deep part, it is immersed on the bottom and let us swim to the side of coast. Since in this group [husband and wife] was weakest in the level preparation, I determined, that pair [husband] and [wife] go only in front, I next to it, and only from behind, in the zone of reach, pair [name,name].
They exported us on the boat to the entrance point into the water. Before to be immersed, all were determined with the course, they verified on the compass, and we were immersed. After descending on the bottom, they verified depth. It was 17 meters, they looked everything to the compasses, they were determined to what side to move, and group began motion. Since I went only in front of the second pair, then it was necessary to constantly turn around and “to [monitorit]” the second pair. They confidently dispatch from behind.
The minutes through five in [wife] flies fin and appears stress, and then panic. As a result [wife] loses regulator, which in turn leads even to the larger stress. Apparently, it took a mouthful water, but I reacted and immediately put regulator back into the mouth, after which began lift to the surface. At the moment of emersion it seemed me that the respiration is absent. Normal respiration was restored before the outcrop.
After rising to the surface, signal about the aid was given, and boat immediately approached us. I communicated to vapor to the boat, and itself immediately was immersed into the place, from where dispatch bubbles approximately into 2[kh] meters from us.
After reaching the bottom, it revealed[buddy of victim] without a partner. To my gestures, where a partner, it pressed by arms, and I noted that [name]was situated in the stress. By gesture it showed “we float”. Reaction did not follow. My actions: took it as the strap of waistcoat and it dragged upward. On the surface the boat already waited us. My first question: where other bubbles? Not who bubbles no longer saw, but they saw, as recently [victim] jumped out to the surface, he struck the water by hand and was hidden under the water. I here was directed to this place, which was found from me meters in 20- TI in the opposite side from the coast, and it was immersed on the bottom. [Dostignuv] of the bottom, began the search for [?], but no one he saw. The minutes through 7 I rose to the surface. Here already arrived in time instructors Dive-[tsentra] “Save- Kamenka”, already in the equipment, ready to begin search. I together with them continued searches to the darkness. Only later to the searches was joined the caused brigade of MChS. Unfortunately, search did not bring results.
On the shore, after the questions of [victim's buddy], I can assume, as everything could occur. After being immersed on the bottom, [name,name] according to our plan of sinking, send with the second pair after me, after being held for the hands. At some moment [victim] let go the hand of [victim's buddy] in order by sign to show that in it remained 100 bars in the balloon. At this moment I and [husband] began to raise [wife] to the surface, intensely working by fins. The silt from the bottom rose from this, and visibility fell practically to zero. [victim's buddy] because of the inexperience arose at one place, without being solved anything to make. From where I him raised. But [victim], on the strength of the fact that has the large experience of sinkings, he decided to go independently to the coast instead of floating to the surface (rule 1 of minute, which constantly was discussed). It went to the opposite side from the coast. From the equipment on it there were dry suit, waistcoat with the integrated system of loads, regulator - all new, its own equipment. Possibly, he wanted more rapidly to leave to the coast and it intensely worked by fins. Air as a result more rapidly consumed. Most likely, when air ended, [victim] floated to the surface. Apparently, because of the stress he could not drop cargo pockets or inflate by mouth waistcoat- compensator, but air in the dry suit was scoured during the emersion.
13.07.2009
[name]
Renovation from 17.07.2009
Search operation is completed. Thursday morning the command of instructors RuDIVE and friendly instructors found [A].[V].[Sovinskogo], 1961 g of the generation, which disappeared under water in past Sunday. It lay on the depth of 19,5 m almost vertically, by face in the silt and by feet upward, all the equipment on the spot, mask on face, in the balloon of approximately 30 bars, all the equipment work, dry suit in the working order. There are no tracks of panic or stress, under the mask - bruise from the pressing of face as a result of drop downward. They raised upward on its compensator.
[victim] was the Naval officer of the high rank, submariner with the large experience of sinkings under the most severe conditions. A certain time him back transferred from the sea-based personnel to [issled].[rabotu] due to the health status, there were the problems testily, confirmed by colleagues.
Restoring events, it was explained that before the descent of [?] they swam over the surface. 5 min after the beginning of sinking the instructor OF [P].[P]. floated one pair and left downward on the bubbles, [name] after which next floated. Last photo fixed [name], who floated to the surface and looking at two circles of bubbles (partner instructor). Then Andrey left under the water and no longer he floated. It is very similar to the heart attack as a result of physical load and complex conditions for sinking, but the final reason for accident will place [sudmedekspertiza]. RuDIVE thanks for help in the complex underwater searches for the instructors OF [KMAS] Of [karena] Of [agamalyana], [name], [name], [Tsentrospas] and [Mosoblspas] of MChS RF, for help on the surface - the archaeologist of Sergey Prokhorov and comrades of Andrey[name], Naval officers of Igors and Oleg, for the technical support - underwater expedition “Neptune” and the Moscow underwater center. And, of course, for every possible support and will - to husband [name] and the son of [name]. The thanks to all [forumchanam], which were ready to help in search of.
It is very it's a pity, that very instructor OF [P].[P]. so was not declared, he did not arrive and even never rang - at least to ask as the matters…
Any questions concerning the accident and any other themes you can pose in on-line- conference on the forum of tetis.ru today, on July 17, to the chairman of the board of directors [GK] Of ruDIVE To [d].[V].[Orlovu] - from 10.00 to 21.00 h.
Request to pose questions in the separate branch:
Tetis.ru :: Ïðîñìîòð òåìû - Îíëàéí-êîíôåðåíöèÿ Äìèòðèÿ Îðëîâà
Note of the moderator: In this [topike] it is permitted only:
- information about everything, concerning [CHP] by direct participants and those, who refer to [CHP];
- condolence;
- the proposal of aid to the family of that been killed and the consideration of the methods of her assignment.
For considering other or what questions, connected with [CHP] is created separate [topik], where are carried out not corresponding to that point out aboveed posts from this theme.
The questions [D].[V]. to Orlov about the incident on July 12 in Save- Kamenka you can pose in special [topike].
Fenix
In the past on Sunday July 12, in Save- Kamienski to career disappeared under water [name], 1961 of generation, that dived in the group of 4 [dayverov] under the management of [frilans]- instructor [name+#] within the framework course AOWD. Entire previous day, on July 11, group in the same composition completed with [name] 3 sinkings in the quarry to depth 17 m. in the morning on July 12 group after briefing it was immersed at the depth of 17 m: in front with the instructor sailed the first pair of less experimental [dayverov], after them immediately sailed the second pair of more experimental [dayverov]. [Victim] swam in the second pair. 5 min after the beginning of sinking the instructor was forced to urgently raise one pair to the surface and to transmit to its insuring boat Dive-[tsentra]. Another pair did not float, after remaining on the bottom. [instructor] went down on the bubbles downward; however, he found only one of the partners, who sat on the spot and he did not know, where to separate [victim]. [victim] raised it to the surface. Simultaneously 20 m of them to the surface rose [victim], something shouted, it slapped in the water by hand and again it left under the water. Instructor went down under the water in this place, but no one he found. Insuring from the boat Dive-[tsentra], the located in the place sinkings, bubbles no longer saw. All sinkings in the quarry were ended, while all instructors, who were being found on the territory of quarry, were mobilized to the searches for that disappeared. Was caused first aid, police and MChS (emergency and disaster relief ministry). Searches by the forces of instructors and search brigade of MChS conducted to the darkness. In the morning on July 13 to the searches were caused the regular instructors of the group Of ruDIVE, but searches were futile, until now: [name] is not discovered.
That disappeared was dressed in the dry suit Of northland, the waistcoat Of black Of diamond, the regulator Of legend - all the equipment new, its own. Is given below the detailed report of instructor [name] about the extraordinary accident, on the basis which its action in this stress situation can be qualified as correct.
According to the reports of instructor and witnesses, [victim] after was radiated with the group and its partner, did not rise to the surface after 1 min, but it went downward along the slope. Then it, swim match of approximately 20 m, rose to the surface and could not hold the positive buoyancy: possibly, because of the expenditure of air in the balloon and the stress, as a result of which it could not drop cargo pockets and blow waistcoat by mouth.
[Dayverskoe] association grieves about this tragedy and is expressed deep sympathy to the family of that disappeared, which was on the shore quarry at the moment [CHP] and it is now located on the spot search operations. All sinkings in the quarry are abolished to the complete explanation of reasons and circumstances of incident. The searches for that disappeared continue.
Detailed report of instructor [name] about extraordinary accident 12.07.2009
I, [name], 11.07.2009 V Dive-[tsentre] “saved - Kamenka” was carried out course AOWD for 4 people. With our acquaintance we conducted the necessary, standard procedures: filling of the forms of release in the limits of admissible risk, medical form, checking certificates.
The first sinking it resembled on the course [RRV]. In 11-30 we entered into the water. The depth of our sinking composed 15 meters, visibilities of 3 meters, the temperature of water of 10 degrees, thermoclines - 8 meters.
Group was broken into two pairs. In the first dispatch the husband with the wife (name,name), the secondly in man (name,name). Sinking is past excellent. I saw the level of the preparation of each of [dayverov]. In both pairs they were on one [name] with the outstanding possession the habits of sinking. During the sinking and after it everyone felt itself excellently, reaction for the sinking - adequate. 20 min. under water were conducted.
The second sinking on the course of navigation it was carried out during the same day (entrance into the water in 15 h.). Depth of 8 meters, conditions the same. Each of [divers?] showed the outstanding habits of the possession of compass. All returned to the point, from where they left. Sinking continued for 30 min.
Last sinking on this day was passed in the night time. Time of the beginning of [?] 22-00. students excellently showed themselves in the mastery of the technology of the supply of signals by lamp, and adequately they reacted to the surrounding situation. There were whatever or signs of stress had whom. Ground time was 20 min.
After the first day for itself I composed idea about each of the students.
In the first pair, where they were husband and wife, I saw that in [wife] the problems in the psychological plan can arise. On the contrary, [husband] behaved very confidently and quietly. In the second pair of what or problems I did not see, but was felt different experience in the sinkings, in [name] it was much higher. As I explained, in [victim]was the still wide experience of sinkings in the Navies - to the enthusiasm [?] as leisure.
Before each sinking and after it were conducted the briefings, at which let out a secret not only the fact that we will make, but also the safety regulations (in particular, “rule 1 of minute” with the loss of partner under water and the need for following air in the balloon).
12.07.2009 in 11.30 h we were gathered for the fourth sinking. Briefing was conducted, they were determined with the place of the entrance into the water, the direction, the conditions, repeated signals, safety regulations. Plan they developed such - we enter from the boat in the deep part, it is immersed on the bottom and let us swim to the side of coast. Since in this group [husband and wife] was weakest in the level preparation, I determined, that pair [husband] and [wife] go only in front, I next to it, and only from behind, in the zone of reach, pair [name,name].
They exported us on the boat to the entrance point into the water. Before to be immersed, all were determined with the course, they verified on the compass, and we were immersed. After descending on the bottom, they verified depth. It was 17 meters, they looked everything to the compasses, they were determined to what side to move, and group began motion. Since I went only in front of the second pair, then it was necessary to constantly turn around and “to [monitorit]” the second pair. They confidently dispatch from behind.
The minutes through five in [wife] flies fin and appears stress, and then panic. As a result [wife] loses regulator, which in turn leads even to the larger stress. Apparently, it took a mouthful water, but I reacted and immediately put regulator back into the mouth, after which began lift to the surface. At the moment of emersion it seemed me that the respiration is absent. Normal respiration was restored before the outcrop.
After rising to the surface, signal about the aid was given, and boat immediately approached us. I communicated to vapor to the boat, and itself immediately was immersed into the place, from where dispatch bubbles approximately into 2[kh] meters from us.
After reaching the bottom, it revealed[buddy of victim] without a partner. To my gestures, where a partner, it pressed by arms, and I noted that [name]was situated in the stress. By gesture it showed “we float”. Reaction did not follow. My actions: took it as the strap of waistcoat and it dragged upward. On the surface the boat already waited us. My first question: where other bubbles? Not who bubbles no longer saw, but they saw, as recently [victim] jumped out to the surface, he struck the water by hand and was hidden under the water. I here was directed to this place, which was found from me meters in 20- TI in the opposite side from the coast, and it was immersed on the bottom. [Dostignuv] of the bottom, began the search for [?], but no one he saw. The minutes through 7 I rose to the surface. Here already arrived in time instructors Dive-[tsentra] “Save- Kamenka”, already in the equipment, ready to begin search. I together with them continued searches to the darkness. Only later to the searches was joined the caused brigade of MChS. Unfortunately, search did not bring results.
On the shore, after the questions of [victim's buddy], I can assume, as everything could occur. After being immersed on the bottom, [name,name] according to our plan of sinking, send with the second pair after me, after being held for the hands. At some moment [victim] let go the hand of [victim's buddy] in order by sign to show that in it remained 100 bars in the balloon. At this moment I and [husband] began to raise [wife] to the surface, intensely working by fins. The silt from the bottom rose from this, and visibility fell practically to zero. [victim's buddy] because of the inexperience arose at one place, without being solved anything to make. From where I him raised. But [victim], on the strength of the fact that has the large experience of sinkings, he decided to go independently to the coast instead of floating to the surface (rule 1 of minute, which constantly was discussed). It went to the opposite side from the coast. From the equipment on it there were dry suit, waistcoat with the integrated system of loads, regulator - all new, its own equipment. Possibly, he wanted more rapidly to leave to the coast and it intensely worked by fins. Air as a result more rapidly consumed. Most likely, when air ended, [victim] floated to the surface. Apparently, because of the stress he could not drop cargo pockets or inflate by mouth waistcoat- compensator, but air in the dry suit was scoured during the emersion.
13.07.2009
[name]
Renovation from 17.07.2009
Search operation is completed. Thursday morning the command of instructors RuDIVE and friendly instructors found [A].[V].[Sovinskogo], 1961 g of the generation, which disappeared under water in past Sunday. It lay on the depth of 19,5 m almost vertically, by face in the silt and by feet upward, all the equipment on the spot, mask on face, in the balloon of approximately 30 bars, all the equipment work, dry suit in the working order. There are no tracks of panic or stress, under the mask - bruise from the pressing of face as a result of drop downward. They raised upward on its compensator.
[victim] was the Naval officer of the high rank, submariner with the large experience of sinkings under the most severe conditions. A certain time him back transferred from the sea-based personnel to [issled].[rabotu] due to the health status, there were the problems testily, confirmed by colleagues.
Restoring events, it was explained that before the descent of [?] they swam over the surface. 5 min after the beginning of sinking the instructor OF [P].[P]. floated one pair and left downward on the bubbles, [name] after which next floated. Last photo fixed [name], who floated to the surface and looking at two circles of bubbles (partner instructor). Then Andrey left under the water and no longer he floated. It is very similar to the heart attack as a result of physical load and complex conditions for sinking, but the final reason for accident will place [sudmedekspertiza]. RuDIVE thanks for help in the complex underwater searches for the instructors OF [KMAS] Of [karena] Of [agamalyana], [name], [name], [Tsentrospas] and [Mosoblspas] of MChS RF, for help on the surface - the archaeologist of Sergey Prokhorov and comrades of Andrey[name], Naval officers of Igors and Oleg, for the technical support - underwater expedition “Neptune” and the Moscow underwater center. And, of course, for every possible support and will - to husband [name] and the son of [name]. The thanks to all [forumchanam], which were ready to help in search of.
It is very it's a pity, that very instructor OF [P].[P]. so was not declared, he did not arrive and even never rang - at least to ask as the matters…
Any questions concerning the accident and any other themes you can pose in on-line- conference on the forum of tetis.ru today, on July 17, to the chairman of the board of directors [GK] Of ruDIVE To [d].[V].[Orlovu] - from 10.00 to 21.00 h.
Request to pose questions in the separate branch:
Tetis.ru :: Ïðîñìîòð òåìû - Îíëàéí-êîíôåðåíöèÿ Äìèòðèÿ Îðëîâà
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