Running the boat over my head after back roll.

[Storker]

So we're about to go diving which is down, and jump in inflated, which is up
and then idiotic messing around with an OK signal to satisfy crew on a boat
who for the next hour have no idea where you are or if you are coming back

And to make sure that everything is ok and your gas hasn't been turned off by someone "helpful"

Violently arresting motion and putting unnecessary stress on your sack of air
once upon a time someone thought this was great and divers can only mimic
the industry once again is crippling divers minds with inexplicable dumbness

By "sack of air" I assume you mean the BCD bladder? Every BCD I've seen has this nifty thing called an overpressure valve, and if my wing can't take the "stress" of being briefly dunked down to around one meters' depth, I'm going to get another one.

prolonging the stay on the surface the most dangerous place during the dive

Well, at least you're guaranteed to have a good supply of breathable gas on the surface. Below? Not so much.

And using terms like "idiotic" and "inexplicable dumbness" usually isn't an effective way to convince those that you disagree with, just saying.

 

[admikar]

I'm usually wary of new members posting things like this, but in this case I'm all on her side. OP, could you post a name of the shop, so we know who to avoid in the future?

 

[tomfcrist]

I'm usually wary of new members posting things like this, but in this case I'm all on her side. OP, could you post a name of the shop, so we know who to avoid in the future?

It was in the opening post. ScubaTech.

 

[divinh]

Hope you recover well, OP!

I've only had to do backroll negative entries if there's strong current on the surface; otherwise it's positive buoyancy and signal to the boat that you're okay. Usually after the backroll, I immediately kick away from the boat. On one occasion, the diver who backrolled just before me, didn't back away far enough such that I backed into him as the boat started to back up and rotate to back away. Even when I bumped into him, he didn't back up, just sat there as I kicked. When the boat rotated, the hull put a cut on my forehead and I could feel the unevenness but I couldn't see it. Since there was mild current, we had to descend quickly. I was worried about the cut and swam up to the guide and pointed to the wound. He said it was okay. We completed the dive and on the tender, blood was dripping down my face and I could see the affect on the other divers. The guide said I should get it cleaned and bandaged. One the main boat, someone had some liquid bandage and I was able to do more dives. It was a liveaboard and I would have been pretty upset had it occurred earlier in the trip and I only had regular bandages.

 

[Storker]

My NSHO: There just isn't any excuse for hitting a diver with the propeller.

1. No exit or entry should be allowed if the propeller is turning. Period. And that's the skipper's responsibility.
2. A proper backroll shouldn't put you below the stern where the propeller is. If you end up below the stern after your back roll, either yur doin it rong, or the skipper is doin it rong.

While the diver shares responsibility for not trying to climb the ladder while the propeller is turning, it's all on the skipper to ensure that the propeller doesn't hit the diver during entry. When the skipper shouts "drop!" the engine should be in neutral. And it should stay in neutral until every diver is accounted for. Simple as that.

 

[zixzax]

Hi guys
This is a difficult subject for me, bu if i don't bring this up, it won't be right, because this could happen to any of us, but we think "not to me". I thought so too. I was working in Grenada, in ScubaTech dive center for a few months. I am a MSDT, I had an assistant DM, who was a local guy, older than me, and showed quite a lot of disrespect and inadequate behaviour towards me and the fact that he was told by the dive shop owner to assist me. I was super friendly with him, as I always am with people, always seeing the best in them until they disappoint me. This DM tried to make me look bad in front of clients every single time he could. This time he made me look bad literarily.
Back roll after he stopped the engine and gave me a command to go. Blow on the head (in a 5mm hood). Surfacing to invite my guests to get into the water, when I see the boat moving away from me (in perfectly still water), and one of my clients already in the water between me and the boat (?!)… My head hurts like crazy, it takes me a moment to understand, what had happened. I take down the hood... and the blood bursts all over the place..my face, hands, water around me...

To cut the very, seemingly endless, story short - it was the boat propeller. DM had started the boat on my head and drove over me before i even got to the surface from the back roll. I got myself up on the boat, holding the splitting swollen head and trying to stop the blood. If i would have lost consciousness i would have died because he was going to drive me back to the dive shop, which was about 30 min away. I screamed at him to take me to the resort that was right in front of the dive site. The staff at the resort acted fast, trying to stop or slow down the bleeding, called for a car to take me to the hospital.

3 lacerations, 90 stitches - huge incredible luck to have the scull just scratched and a few hematomas inside, but brain still in tact - I am grateful to be alive.

The DM never came to see me in the hospital, he never sent me an sms, he never wondered if i am alive or not. The dive shop owner left me without the salary and threatened that i will never find a job in diving business if i speak about this. She told everyone it was a small bump on the head.

I should have listened to my gut, when that morning i did not want to dive. I cried and told the owner i didn't want to go (why? - maybe i knew this would happen), but she made me go.. i should have quit right there.

P.S. i did about 200 dives off that boat, i had a big orange buoy in my hand, i had over 2500 dives under my belt diving and working in diving all over the world. The dive shop owner said it was my fault...

I don't want you guys to feel sorry for me, because i am incredibly lucky. The lesson to learn from this is - ONLY dive with reputable dive shop, work/vacation, doesn't matter. If you see them breaking rules or standards or neglecting safety of yourself or guests - report them, don't dive with them! Please!

Thank you for giving an opportunity to speak about it.

Dear Jenny. I am a new diver and I feel sorry that this happened to you. The engine should not have been switched on for whatever reason when you and even some guests were still close to the boat. It could have hurt the guests as well.
You said you felt not okay to dive and you even cried to the owner. You must have had a reason for that. Maybe a headache or fatigue. In a book I read that if you don't feel like diving, just don't do it. I had a similar experience, but much less serious than your case. Last week I felt I was not in my best condition but I still carried out a dive, in which I descended too hastily and hurt my ears. And more than that, I put too much anti-fog liquid into my mask and I suffered from burning in my right eye for the whole dive! Luckily that was all I had.
Maybe diving for you is a job and you love it and maybe you are a person who would not easily say no to your boss. I am newbie but I would still advise that if you don't feel ready or comfortable for a dive, just don't do it.
I wish you recover soon. And if you don't like the shop and its staff, I would suggest that you go for another one. These guys will always remind you of this bad incident.
Your smile is pretty and please keep it.
Best
zixzax

 

[Yellowdog]

My NSHO: There just isn't any excuse for hitting a diver with the propeller.

1. No exit or entry should be allowed if the propeller is turning. Period. And that's the skipper's responsibility.
2. A proper backroll shouldn't put you below the stern where the propeller is. If you end up below the stern after your back roll, either yur doin it rong, or the skipper is doin it rong.

While the diver shares responsibility for not trying to climb the ladder while the propeller is turning, it's all on the skipper to ensure that the propeller doesn't hit the diver during entry. When the skipper shouts "drop!" the engine should be in neutral. And it should stay in neutral until every diver is accounted for. Simple as that.

+1. I m not a very experienced diver but I am a very experienced boat handler and there is no reason a boat should ever be in gear next to a diver or swimmer in a recreational activity. It is okay and actually important in some situations for the engine to be running but never in gear. During pickup from an unanchored boat the captain will obviously have to be in gear to position the boat to recover the diver(s) at the surface but again as soon as the boat is close the engine is in neutral and stays in neutral until the diver(s) are on board.

 

[IncreaseMyT]

Even when the prop is not in motion back rolling in wavy conditions with air in your BC is not ideal. Bobbing on top of the water is really dangerous for multiple reasons.

Also consider that there are many different positions on a boat to back roll from. If you are towards the front of the boat you have farther to fall, so you are gonna bob a lot harder if you have air in your BC.

Even if I am on a boat where I have to give the OK signal to captain before descending, which is very rare, I still go in negative, drop down 5-7 feet and swim away from the boat, then surface really fast and give my ok signal.

I have never jumped in the water with my air off, not sure how people do that. It is like the only thing I check before I jump in. So for me, this does not deter a negative entry for me.

 

[Dan]

A good dive operator won't take you to a dive site that requires negative entry until the DM / dive guide knows the level of everyone's diving experience and how comfortable you are with doing such entry. He / she would conduct a checkout dive during the first dive of the trip and observe everyone's diving skill and readiness during this checkout dive.

The checkout dive involve such as doing positive entry, gathering everyone at the surface, giving OK signal to the boat captain when all is well and everyone is ready to descend. Then during the descent, we make sure that we have the right weight to descend. I've seen people could not descend due to having not enough dive weight or forgot to put on the dive weight or other things (fins, mask, etc.)

After not diving for 6 months, the checkout dive is very helpful for me. At one time I did a checkout dive in Channel Islands, CA. DM recommended me to wear 7mm wetsuit, 20 lbs weight to dive in that 60F water (I am normally a warm water recreational diver, diving in 82F with 3mm wetsuit and 12 lb dive weight). After a positive entry, I found myself sinking like a rock, unable to power inflate my BCD and had to fin like mad to the surface. My dive buddies were looking out for me at the surface and wondering why took me so long to surface. I discovered that the LP hose quick connect to my BCD power inflator got disconnected during entry. After getting back to the surface, I was able to reconnect the LP hose to the power inflator and give OK sign to the DM and dive buddies.

After the checkout dive I found out the 20 lb weight was way too heavy for me, especially after the 7mm wetsuit is wet, most of the trap air between my body & wetsuit escaped and the 7mm wetsuit is compressed at the 40' bottom. I was able to dive with 16 lb dive weight afterwards.

 

[Storker]

After the checkout dive I found out the 20 lb weight was way too heavy for me, especially after the 7mm wetsuit is wet, most of the trap air between my body & wetsuit escaped and the 7mm wetsuit is compressed at the 40' bottom. I was able to dive with 16 lb dive weight afterwards.

So, your optimal weight was some 16-ish pounds (8-ish kg), but you had serious issues with some 4 pounds (2kg) more? Given your stated experience, I'm a bit surprised that 2kg more than your optimal weighting would be a problem.

For me, 2kg is more or less is what I experiment with when adding another middle layer to my undergarments.