OK, I just started a new thread in Basic Discussions on Searching for separated buddy. Please take a look and respond. Thank you.
Willie
Willie
Runaway Buddy!
- Thread starter Rick Inman
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dumpsterDiver
Banned
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I would have made no safety stop and ascend directly to the surface in attempt to help the diver. I would then have waited maybe a minute or two on the surface for the panicked buddy to show up or to see some bubbles indicating he is still breathing.
Then I would have just about freaked and made my other buddy inflate his BC and stay on the surface alone while I would have performed a quick search on the bottom for the distressed buddy for maybe 5 minutes. This seems to be the only course of action that could have saved his life if the diver had really been in trouble. After a few minutes of not finding the lost diver, the urgency of the search on the bottom would have been over.
After a 5 minute search, I would have reluctantly ascended and did a nice safety stop. Then I would have kicked his *** on shore. But thats just me..
Then I would have just about freaked and made my other buddy inflate his BC and stay on the surface alone while I would have performed a quick search on the bottom for the distressed buddy for maybe 5 minutes. This seems to be the only course of action that could have saved his life if the diver had really been in trouble. After a few minutes of not finding the lost diver, the urgency of the search on the bottom would have been over.
After a 5 minute search, I would have reluctantly ascended and did a nice safety stop. Then I would have kicked his *** on shore. But thats just me..
OP
This separates all three divers from each other. Personally, I would not consider this as a good option.dumpsterDiver:
Serous question, dD. You being an instructor, is this an agency protocol, or just the way you would handle it?
Thanks!
dumpsterDiver
Banned
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It is actually the way I think I would have handled it. I'm sure it has nothing to do with PADI. If I saw my buddy shooting to the surface in distress and then was unable to find him or bubbles on the surface or regain contact underwater, I would view this as a probable REAL emergency and not a "normal" buddy separation.
Leaving the third diver alone on the surface, while I search for the lost diver could very easily be criticised, but that is how I would do it. In defense of this option, is the fact that the guy on the surface shouldn't die from floating for 5 minutes and he serves as a look out for the "lost" diver on the surface. Should he appear there, he could potentially inform the formerly lost diver that he should definitely wait on the surface for his butt whooping and not try to go down looking for me.
If the water was much deeper, or the current was screaming then I would not think it would be worth the effort and the risk of playing the "hero" and would have just snorkeled in on the surface.
Leaving the third diver alone on the surface, while I search for the lost diver could very easily be criticised, but that is how I would do it. In defense of this option, is the fact that the guy on the surface shouldn't die from floating for 5 minutes and he serves as a look out for the "lost" diver on the surface. Should he appear there, he could potentially inform the formerly lost diver that he should definitely wait on the surface for his butt whooping and not try to go down looking for me.
If the water was much deeper, or the current was screaming then I would not think it would be worth the effort and the risk of playing the "hero" and would have just snorkeled in on the surface.
SeanQ
Contributor
What would you do if you were to find yourself in trouble? How do you know the third diver won't worry about the two of you and decide to descend on his own? What would you do if you couldn't find the second diver and ascended only to realize you can't find the third either?
dbulmer
Contributor
Ok, one more issue to throw in there - situational awareness. Diver A and diver B and C were possibly too close to each other. Diver B may have accidently kicked out a reg because diver A got too close. Diver B has guessed what happened but was not sure till after the team briefing. Diver C may have been totally unaware what happened to diver A.
So, how do you teach situational awareness?
So, how do you teach situational awareness?
I actually started a thread a while back about just this, because it's one of my weak areas. I didn't get a lot of concrete suggestions. However, just by being aware that it is a problem and trying REALLY hard to stay alert, it has gotten better.
None of us is perfect, and things like team formation take practice. One of the problems here was that the diver who got the reg kicked out of his mouth was BEHIND the rest of the team instead of up at shoulder level. But that happens sometimes, particularly if you are diving along a wall or wreck and everybody is trying to see.
In my experience, in a three man team, the two outer divers have a lot of trouble keeping track of one another, particularly if the visibility is poor. You almost end up like a fighter jet formation -- the "wing men" key off the center diver. If you all have good lights, everybody can see the three light spots, but if anybody is light-less, that's not an option. In addition, there is the "look at the fish" part of the visual scan (after all, we're down there to look at stuff, right?), and during that few seconds, things CAN happen that you just miss. The only way to avoid that would be to spend the whole dive staring at your buddy, which would be a rather uninteresting dive . . .
I think it helps if everyone takes turns leading a dive and being responsible for keeping track of everyone and watching pressure guages. It gives you a sense of where you want people to be and how you want them to act. I dive with some divers that like to the follow the leader. I'm pretty good at looking through my fins or over my shoulder, but I would prefer my buddy to be on my side so that I can simply turn my head. Consequently, when I am the "follower" I'll try to keep the plan straight in my head so that I can anticipate where were are going next and head in the appropriate direction without getting behind the "leader" (we are running parallel courses).
If I stop to look at something interesting, I'll look, them swim past it and stop so that my buddy has a chance to look at it too. For example, we might be peering into portholes on ships, so I'll wait until they had the same chance that I had. If there are several in a row, then we will work them simultaneously, but I'll check their positions between portholes. Waiting for them to catch up is a good time to regroup and make sure everyone is still tight.
Also anytime, there is a change, such as a depth or course change, it is a good idea to regroup everyone and signal the change. I'll also check pressures a few times towards the beginning of the dive so that I can gauge the relative air consumption of my buddies. If I dive with them for a while, I'll generally have an idea where there pressure should be relative to mine and looking at their gauge is just to verify my calculation.
Lastly, I'll physically look to see if they are still where I expect them about once per minute. This is a quick glance- as long as I can spot a fin or light or even bubbles above where they should be, I assume they are OK. Less frequently, I'll do a "full OK" where I will look them over, signal OK, and give them a chance to signal OK or communicate anything else.
I tell people that I dive with that if they have a problem, stop and I'll come to them. So far it has worked out. At first it might feel a little paranoid always looking for you buddy, but it makes the dive exciting and at the same time, you can relax that you know where they are.
Edit: forgot to add- when I do the "full OK" I'll look the over to see if they are flailing around, breathing hard, having difficulties with gear or clips, or have eyes the size of baseballs. Anything that might indicate they are uncomfortable!
This whole process should go both ways, regardless of who is "leading" and who is "following."
If I stop to look at something interesting, I'll look, them swim past it and stop so that my buddy has a chance to look at it too. For example, we might be peering into portholes on ships, so I'll wait until they had the same chance that I had. If there are several in a row, then we will work them simultaneously, but I'll check their positions between portholes. Waiting for them to catch up is a good time to regroup and make sure everyone is still tight.
Also anytime, there is a change, such as a depth or course change, it is a good idea to regroup everyone and signal the change. I'll also check pressures a few times towards the beginning of the dive so that I can gauge the relative air consumption of my buddies. If I dive with them for a while, I'll generally have an idea where there pressure should be relative to mine and looking at their gauge is just to verify my calculation.
Lastly, I'll physically look to see if they are still where I expect them about once per minute. This is a quick glance- as long as I can spot a fin or light or even bubbles above where they should be, I assume they are OK. Less frequently, I'll do a "full OK" where I will look them over, signal OK, and give them a chance to signal OK or communicate anything else.
I tell people that I dive with that if they have a problem, stop and I'll come to them. So far it has worked out. At first it might feel a little paranoid always looking for you buddy, but it makes the dive exciting and at the same time, you can relax that you know where they are.
Edit: forgot to add- when I do the "full OK" I'll look the over to see if they are flailing around, breathing hard, having difficulties with gear or clips, or have eyes the size of baseballs. Anything that might indicate they are uncomfortable!
This whole process should go both ways, regardless of who is "leading" and who is "following."
FlimFlam
Registered
This has been one of the most constructive threads I've seen on this board since I started coming here last year... Thanks everyone...
dbulmer
Contributor
TSandM,
Agree with you - Do It easy more or less stated what I'd be doing but I think it takes a while before a diver can do the things he suggests automatically and when you add new kit to the equation it makes it a bit more difficult.
I wrote about the awareness because it was from this small thing that the bigger issue seemed to escalate and I think quite a few posters have suggested the need for skills practice and for me being aware of your buddy at all times is an essential skill but one of the hardest things to do while one is in the water - it's easy to talk about but often difficult to put into practice without getting it wrong a few times.
Agree with you - Do It easy more or less stated what I'd be doing but I think it takes a while before a diver can do the things he suggests automatically and when you add new kit to the equation it makes it a bit more difficult.
I wrote about the awareness because it was from this small thing that the bigger issue seemed to escalate and I think quite a few posters have suggested the need for skills practice and for me being aware of your buddy at all times is an essential skill but one of the hardest things to do while one is in the water - it's easy to talk about but often difficult to put into practice without getting it wrong a few times.
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