Rotating turret useful for stage/deco reg?

[GF99/99]

This year I'll take classes in using stage & deco bottles. Are rotating turrets helpful for stage & deco regs?

It is kind of a personal preference thing. Kind of like how some people like flip flops other like sandals but in the end the both work and your not really going to notice much of a difference.

Personally I like having the rotating turret as it allows the hoses to lay flatter against the tank. But some hate having the rotating turret because it does just that, it rotates and they just prefer to have a fixed hose position. Between my dive buddies I would say 70% prefer swivel and 30% prefer fixed. But like is said in the end either will work and honestly I have dove with both and for stages/BO you will not notice a difference

The only advantage of having rotating turrets is your regs are more versatile. For example if you want to use them for sidemount diving.

yes and no. I wouldn't go out of my way to seek them, but if your backgas regs are turrets then there is a benefit to keeping everything identical. I would worry more about service and keeping everything easy to deal with. Most of mine are Poseidon 3960's because I have a box of them as I started replacing them with Deep6 Signatures, but if I had Deep6 Signatures and nothing else then I would stay with that same regulator for stage/deco because it makes service easier. Everything can move around as necessary.

Spot on, this is way more important. I think this is way most usually end up with swivels turrets because there back gas or sidemount regs are swivel. I know for me this is how I ended up going down that rabbit hole and ended up with 8 DST's but also have a couple DS4's. Matching your gear to keep things simple is much more valuable then the minor difference between fixed vs. swivel for a satge.

 

[Wibble]

I've a pair of Tec3's which I "did" use for backmount. I've seen these on bailouts and they route really well as the hoses point downwards.

Might have a play with those as this could work better with sidemounted bailouts (e.g. left and right hand side).

 

[tbone1004]

I've a pair of Tec3's which I "did" use for backmount. I've seen these on bailouts and they route really well as the hoses point downwards.

Might have a play with those as this could work better with sidemounted bailouts (e.g. left and right hand side).

they work really well for deco/stage bottles. Not that well for what they were originally intended for, but deco/stage is a good use for them.

 

[Wibble]

they work really well for deco/stage bottles. Not that well for what they were originally intended for, but deco/stage is a good use for them.

Have seen a lot of rebreather divers with Tec3's as deco stage regs. Makes sense as they probably came to rebreathers from OC twinsets.

 

[Pearlman]

Spot on, this is way more important. I think this is way most usually end up with swivels turrets because there back gas or sidemount regs are swivel. I know for me this is how I ended up going down that rabbit hole and ended up with 8 DST's but also have a couple DS4's. Matching your gear to keep things simple is much more valuable then the minor difference between fixed vs. swivel for a satge.

Ok curious - where exactly does the simple part come in? Only if you are servicing your own regs?

Background - I have an MK25Evo on order waiting for delivery and contemplating buying another MK19EVO rather than another MK25Evo just to understand the differences in breathing quality. The form factor should be almost the same except for minor weight differences. (Just me ”investing” my salary bonus for a lifetime purchase and some “adventure” rather than earn a paltry 5% in savings interest …). I will start my tech training journey this year and possibly do a sidemount course later by next year. Should I care if I am going to be sending my regs for service anyways?

 

[Couv]

Background - I have an MK25Evo on order waiting for delivery and contemplating buying another MK19EVO rather than another MK25Evo just to understand the differences in breathing quality.

If one is using a high performance first stage, be it piston or diaphragm, the difference in work of breathing is realized in the choice of the second stage-not in the first stage.

 

[GF99/99]

Ok curious - where exactly does the simple part come in? Only if you are servicing your own regs?

Background - I have an MK25Evo on order waiting for delivery and contemplating buying another MK19EVO rather than another MK25Evo just to understand the differences in breathing quality. The form factor should be almost the same except for minor weight differences. (Just me ”investing” my salary bonus for a lifetime purchase and some “adventure” rather than earn a paltry 5% in savings interest …). I will start my tech training journey this year and possibly do a sidemount course later by next year. Should I care if I am going to be sending my regs for service anyways?

If one is using a high performance first stage, be it piston or diaphragm, the difference in work of breathing is realized in the choice of the second stage-not in the first stage.

Couv is spot on. I would bet big money if we blind folded you and you swapped back an forth between the MK25 and MK19 with the same G260 you would not be able to tell a difference.

Yes you are correct the main reason is for servicing. But even then I own DST'S DS4's US4's they all use the same parts but generally all my regs that go on big tanks are DST's. My rebreathers have the DS4's and US4's.

Reason it is nice to have all the same regs is now you can use them for anything and set the up any way you want. Backmount, sidemount, bail outs, etc. it is a convenience thing. For example lets say I have some reg setup on a twinset and 2 stages and some on my CC trimix bailouts but today I want to go sidemount diving well now any of the regs I own will do that.

 

[Pearlman]

If one is using a high performance first stage, be it piston or diaphragm, the difference in work of breathing is realized in the choice of the second stage-not in the first stage.

Couv is spot on. I would bet big money if we blind folded you and you swapped back an forth between the MK25 and MK19 with the same G260 you would not be able to tell a difference.

My curiosity actually stems from my experience with the MK25 piston reg as compared to a diaphragm set (rental gear admittedly). I found a magical responsiveness when breathing from it as compared to diaphragm 1st stages which even others have described as having a more mechanical reflex(es) in other threads. Scubapro also states a blurb in their literature that Piston regs being mechanically simpler have lighter parts that move more easily and quickly and result in that attribute we call responsiveness. Hence I am trying to fathom if this actually translates into a breathing quality with different attributes somewhat comparable to a continuous and smooth analog signal vs digital (if you stretch the analogy a bit). In fact this is the first thing that came to my mind when I dove with tha reg… but then it could also be a state of tune of the 2nd stage as others might want to argue.

Reason it is nice to have all the same regs is now you can use them for anything and set the up any way you want. Backmount, sidemount, bail outs, etc. it is a convenience thing. For example lets say I have some reg setup on a twinset and 2 stages and some on my CC trimix bailouts but today I want to go sidemount diving well now any of the regs I own will do that.

On the side - So the form factor of the mk25/Mk19 being quiet similar, I just made up my mind to go for the MK19EVO as the other reg. I will eventually discover for myself and conclude over repeated dives if the theory holds true. My 3rd reg set is going to be an Apeks DST/XTX50.

Enough deviation from the topic. Asking as a person who has never dived with stage bottles and coming back to the OPs question - what is the argument against a right-angle 1st stage LP port on a small non-turret reg like the DS4( this was my original first choice just being miserly) ? Also is there a risk of sharp bends and tugs at odd angles with stage bottle regs 1. when using non-turret regs 2. When using a 90deg 1st stage adapter?

 

[Jacob BV]

actually the opposite is true, you want them to be as light as possible, though again the half pound or whatever different they are is pretty inconsequential. I would not seek out one or the other based on weight. Keeping them the same brand/parts kit to your backgas is more important than worry about half a pound of weight or whether you use a 40" hose vs a 36" hose.

I agree it isn't a huge amount of weight. But if we assume the person is in twin 12s and a 7L stage if they have perfect weighting they will start the dive approximetely 8kg "overweighted" due to the weight of the gas. If they use a DST they will be 8.5kg "overweighted" or about 6% more "overweighted". With two stages and 2 DSTs you are 10% more overweighted than you need to be. I don't notice the difference but 10% is big enough for me to care.

DS4s and DSTs are identical to service.

I agree if you had exactly the same first stage everywhere its nice as you can swap and change. It's not exactly that simple when you consider my DSTs on my twins have 5 ports, would i keep my stage DSTs with 5 ports so i could make a last minute change? I don't like that idea too much. Even if i did it would take just as much time to set up a stage DST into a backgas DST as it would a DS4.

 

[tbone1004]

I agree it isn't a huge amount of weight. But if we assume the person is in twin 12s and a 7L stage if they have perfect weighting they will start the dive approximetely 8kg "overweighted" due to the weight of the gas. If they use a DST they will be 8.5kg "overweighted" or about 6% more "overweighted". With two stages and 2 DSTs you are 10% more overweighted than you need to be. I don't notice the difference but 10% is big enough for me to care.

DS4s and DSTs are identical to service.

I agree if you had exactly the same first stage everywhere its nice as you can swap and change. It's not exactly that simple when you consider my DSTs on my twins have 5 ports, would i keep my stage DSTs with 5 ports so i could make a last minute change? I don't like that idea too much. Even if i did it would take just as much time to set up a stage DST into a backgas DST as it would a DS4.

Stages and deco bottles are not factored into weighting of a diver as they are not permanent parts of the rig. They're not "ditchable" in the sense of dropping lead from a pocket/pouch/belt but they are not considered part of the "balanced rig" as they are close enough to neutral.

The issue with DS4 vs DST is the hoses may not be long enough. For some asinine reason Apeks doesn't include the 5th ports as standard on their first stages, but assuming you have them *which you should for doubles*, then the secondary second stage/octo and the BC inflator hose are going to be a few inches shorter than if they were coming out of a DS4 or the rotating portion of the turret and had to make a 90* bend to head towards their destination.
Now with Apeks in particular there is no real benefit as they use a single parts kit for their first stages so a Tec3, DS4, DST, FSR, FST, US4, and UST all use the same parts and are the same brand so happy days. They are the only one out there to my knowledge *maybe Atomic?* like that so if you have Apeks then it doesn't really matter, but if you are looking at other brands it is something you should pay attention to.