Rob Davie's accident. (aka. BigJetDiver)

[Kim]

Flooded or unflooded? Maybe I misunderstood the question, it's late.

Rob usually used a bp/w rather than the Inspo's BCD. So getting out of it is about the same as any bp/w, only real difference is the counterlungs. Which aren't much of an impediment doffing (or ditching) the unit, not anymore than a second stage bungied around your neck.

Sorry....I think I misunderstood, not you. I thought you were answering a question as to how easy it would be to swim the RB unit up - not ditch it. My bad.

 

[Warren_L]

Caustic cocktail should have been found on autopsy. Alkali burns are pretty severe, and I doubt they would be missed.

So there has been an autopsy report published then? I don't think I've seen it.

 

[roakey]

I don't know enough about RBs to be sure, but wouldn't that come to light during the gas analysis? (the loop gas left WAS analyzed and found to be normal)

In my opinion we really know nothing about the gas in the loop. With the mouthpiece unable to close, the moment the unit was pulled out of the water, the loop would become compromised with air and any test would be inconclusive.

The fact that the loop was mostly flooded means that there was so little gas left that even a slight introduction of air into it would throw the numbers way off.

Bottom line is that in my opinion we can completely ignore the loop gas analaysis. It doesn't tell us anything, in my opinion.

Roak

 

[Cacia]

As to pilot medical testing, I believe Rob would have a physical every 6 months, with an EKG every other time. The physical itself is not exhaustive and relies heavily on history and self-reporting. Not likely that Continental would have stiffer restrictions than the norm.

so, unless I am reading this wrong, no stress tests on the physicals.

No autopsy? That seems unusual. Would that be because of him being in Egypt? (because here it would be a coroner's case)

Appears that there are deeper forces at work many times than "proper training" and all that. It was probably mind blowing beautiful on the first dive and he really wanted to go again and improvised... the seduction of the passion can sneak up on most of us. For me, so far, thats the warning I am taking forward for myself....doesn't even make it wrong...just that even the most technically minded divers amongst us can be seduced by the profound drive to make a certain dive.
Even if this is speculation and inconclusive, often we take the lessons we need to hear. Another diver could take a different lesson after examining Rob's circumstances that day and it still be a valuable thing.

 

[H2Andy]

ok, let me see if i can sumarize where we are:

1. rob dove for about 4 minutes to 80 feet

2. he was seen switching to his bail-out bottle

3. he was seen reaching the surface (i.e. he was able to get his unit, however
negative, to the surface).

4. he was seen on the surface swimming to the boat.

5. then, next thing we know, he is floating on the surface, clearly neutral enough
to stay there and not sink. his unit is turned off, consistent with a bail out.

6. what happened between the time he was seen swimming to the boat
and the time he was found on the surface?

-- he was on his bail-out bottle, so the gas on the loop is irrelevant
-- he was on the surface and stayed there, so any negative bouyancy is irrelevant

what possible scenarios would account for this?

1. he ascended too fast and suffered an AGE. unlikely given rob's experience.

2. he stressed himself and the effort of getting to the surface triggered a
heart attack. possible, given rob's age of 59 years old.

less likely:

1. the air in his bail-out bottle was contaminated (perhaps with CO) causing him
to pass out at the surface.

 

[cerich]

ok, let me see if i can sumarize where we are:

1. rob dove for about 4 minutes to 80 feet

2. he was seen switching to his bail-out bottle
and the person who saw this did what?

3. he was seen reaching the surface (i.e. he was able to get his unit, however
negative, to the surface).

4. he was seen on the surface swimming to the boat.

5. then, next thing we know, he is floating on the surface, clearly neutral enough
to stay there and not sink. his unit is turned off, consistent with a bail out.

and the person/persons who saw this did what?

6. what happened between the time he was seen swimming to the boat
and the time he was found on the surface?

-- he was on his bail-out bottle, so the gas on the loop is irrelevant
-- he was on the surface and stayed there, so any negative bouyancy is irrelevant

what possible scenarios would account for this?

1. he ascended too fast and suffered an AGE. unlikely given rob's experience.

2. he stressed himself and the effort of getting to the surface triggered a
heart attack. possible, given rob's age of 59 years old.

less likely:

1. the air in his bail-out bottle was contaminated (perhaps with CO) causing him
to pass out at the surface.

My comments above in red.

I don't want to make a big issue of this because at the end of the day Rob has passed on and now can do his favorite things (diving/flying) without the limations we face here. Nor do I want to implicate any individuals who were diving with Rob that day, they need to deal with this much more than the rest of us.

IMHO however the outcome of this would have been different with a different approach to team diving. Rob may have still passed or been badly hurt but the chances of him doing so would have been greatly reduced.

Best,

Chris

 

[caveseeker7]

No autopsy? That seems unusual. Would that be because of him being in Egypt? (because here it would be a coroner's case)

Yes, I asked a friend who worked as a DM for quite a while and has experienced accidents, including a fatal one in the general area (bit north of there, actually). From a medical point of view the investigations are very superficial, if there's no sign of foul play it's an accident, unless there are wounds drowning is the safe bet. Once the death certificate is issued (especially a reasonable one, and drowning is if you're in or under water) local authorities wouldn't request one.

1. the air in his bail-out bottle was contaminated (perhaps with CO) causing him
to pass out at the surface.

O2 content was checked and ok, so if the gas was contaminated it wasn't enough to throw off the O2 percentage. Also, if the gas was contaminated it would have likely been in other tanks, too.

 

[Nailer99]

I'm new to diving, and I admittedly don't know much. But I've been following this incident closely. Sounds like Mr. Davie was a pretty amazing individual.

The thing about this incident that I keep wondering about is the fact that he made it to the surface, and was seen swimming towards the boat. That really does seem to argue that it wasn't a diving accident, per se. I do wonder if it was a heart attack, as many here have speculated. I may be wrong about this, but I believe I read elsewhere on the web that the Egyyptian Authorities required his body to be cremated before they released it to his family- I'll try and verify that. I can't recall if an autopsy was to be performed there or not. If an autopsyWAS performed,it should have revealed a heart attack easily, with a simple blood test; I believe. Perhaps one of the medical professionals who are reading this could confirm that?
I'm not sure why I'm so drawn to this incident - I've seen several threads in which Mr. Davie admonished people who speculated on the relative dangers of CCR diving, and the irony of his passing is poingnant.

 

[Cacia]

yes, maybe Lynne or Ash would know if CPK MB bands, etc can be done on a deceased....

I thought Andy seemed to have deduced things down pretty well. I don't think I agree that it would be improbable to have the equipment problem and the subsequent exertion inducing an MI and then a possible fatal arrythmia, etc. So many accidents are often muti-factorial.

 

[cerich]

In most of the world when somebody dies dying there isn't a whole lot of effort put into finding out exactly how or why, after all it is an assumed incresed risk activity. It seems to happen more here in the US where legal implications so often come into play.

I'm am not surprised the Egyptian coroner went with drowning