Roadmap to Wreck, Cave, multiple tanks

[Bruno Genovese]

I am mainly a recreational diver for now, but I am finding that several of the recreational PADI courses (AOW and some of the specialties) to be very lightweight, mostly rehashing the same topics from earlier courses without adding much useful content.

I have an interest in doing Wreck penetration, "recreational-level" cave diving and perhaps longer 20-40m dives longer than a single tank allows. I learned that all of those things require that I take tech courses.

So, given all of that... I was wondering whether there is any point in taking the Cavern or Wreck specialties, or whether I would be better off skipping them (as worthless) and going straight for their tech equivalents. And in order to do that... what are the courses I should plan to take - from PADI or another agency - and keeping in mind that I want to truly learn so that I can be safe when I practice it, not just get the pretty plastic card.

Any recommendations?

 

[Lorenzoid]

My two cents is that if you have a specific goal in mind, then find an instructor who can teach you the whole progression of courses to reach your goal, whether that is wreck penetration or cave. Every thread on this topic will include comments to the effect that what matters most is the instructor, not the agency the cards come from. Find the right instructor to meet your goals, whose teaching style fits your learning style, who regularly does (apart from teaching) the kind of dives you want to do. I don't know about wreck penetration, but there are loads of recommendations on SB for cave instructors you could contact, as well as what questions to ask them to see if they are a good fit for you.

 

[tbone1004]

I don't think staying with one instructor is really ideal and especially as you are talking about wreck and cave together since there aren't many if any that are true experts in both. Most usually do one or the other due to their location.

Best thing you can do at this point is find something like GUE Fundies, or intro to tech with an actual tech instructor and start there. From there you should do your cave training where you'll have most everything you need to know for wreck training down pat. After that, do an advanced wreck training course with someone who dives the types of wrecks you want to dive.

 

[boulderjohn]

You have announced some very broad goals, and it is hard to give anything too specific. I would guess that part of the problem you have had with past instruction is that the instructors you had did not have those kinds of goal in mind, and they may not have been equipped to take you where you wanted to go. Only a tiny percentage of divers go in even the modest direction you have pointed out. Here are some thoughts.

1. If you find an instructor who is certified to teach both recreational and technical classes and tell that instructor what you said here, that instructor can potentially help you map out a suitable path. I was once teaching a drysuit class, and a student in another class came over to see me because he wanted drysuit certification. It turned out he wanted that certification as a first step in much greater long range plans, and we mapped out a long term project that got him exactly where he wanted to go. A couple of years later we took a cave diving trip to Mexico together.

2. The PADI cavern diver class is roughly the same as most cave certification agencies' cavern courses, but the difference can be the instructor and (more importantly) your goals for the class. A PADI cavern instructor must be full cave certified, but does not have to be a cave instructor. I am a PADI cavern instructor, but I am not a cave instructor. If you came to me asked me to teach the cavern class, I would ask why you wanted to do it. If you said you wanted to feel safer doing cenotes in Mexico with a guide or just get those skills, I would be happy to teach the course. If you told me you wanted it for a first step toward becoming a cave diver, I would advise you instead to seek out a cave instructor who could make it part of a long term project.

3. The PADI wreck diving course will prepare you for the sanitized wrecks/artificial reefs that most people dive. You will want more than that for serious wreck exploration. You will not find many opportunities for serious wreck explorations, though. Many people with hundreds of logged wreck dives have never been near one.

4. It would be good to start with a good class, either part of a technical program or a distinctive specialty with a technical instructor, that will teach you advanced buoyancy, trim, and kicking skills. That will make a world of difference in your diving and will help you decide what you really want to do next.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I don't think staying with one instructor is really ideal and especially as you are talking about wreck and cave together since there aren't many if any that are true experts in both. Most usually do one or the other due to their location.

Best thing you can do at this point is find something like GUE Fundies, or intro to tech with an actual tech instructor and start there. From there you should do your cave training where you'll have most everything you need to know for wreck training down pat. After that, do an advanced wreck training course with someone who dives the types of wrecks you want to dive.

My recommendation above to find an instructor and stick with him/her assumed that the OP would pick one--either cave or wreck--and aim for that goal first, and then if still interested in the other path find an instructor suitable for that. Cave path first would seem to make more sense, since the progression is so well defined, and there are so many recommendations for instructors here on SB. Nevertheless, if the OP just loves wrecks, he could find a died-in-the-wool wreck instructor and aim for that first. I agree GUE Fundies is always a good choice for a first course down the tech path, but I'm biased.

 

[Bruno Genovese]

Thanks to all for the extensive input. I probably need to give a few more details:

- My primary diving at this time is recreational. I find caves, wrecks and longer times alluring.

- I do most of the truly interesting diving during vacation trip, and I want to be able to reach it and do it. So, my goal for tech level skills is to ensure that I won't be locked out of a great dive at a particular location site because of not having the cert required to penetrate a vessel (sanitized or not) or a real cool cave system. For example, I got the Deep Diver specialty not from a desire to dive deep - and most of the time I will dive at shallower depths - but to make sure that I won't miss out on a cool wreck or something else that lies at 35m.

- I am also a person that enjoys the process of learning and likes to learn well, but only the original PADI Open Water course and the Nitrox Specialty course felt like real learning. The rest just felt like a way to get money out of me and perhaps do some interesting dives rather than a true learning experience. My hope is that Tech courses and diving (even the low-level tech diving that can be done with my entry level or rented gear) will involve a bit more real learning.

- Because there are no local Tech level instructors where I live, I fear that I will have to take each tech course during vacation trips I take with my wife (who will likely never want to go farther than OW). That inevitably means a different instructor (and probably a different country) for each course. That is the main reason why I ended up posting here for advice.

But - as several of you suggested - I see the wisdom of picking the best possible cave instructor to take my first tech course (whatever that course might be) and pick his brain for the overall plan.

So, it seems that my next step is to search for that "best" instructor in the general area of North/South America or the Caribbean, and plan a vacation there, where I'd take my first tech course.

 

[boulderjohn]

- Because there are no local Tech level instructors where I live, I fear that I will have to take each tech course during vacation trips I take with my wife (who will likely never want to go farther than OW).

Where do you live?

True technical diving requires a lot of time, effort, and equipment. It is certainly possible to do it on vacations, but it is not the easiest route.

 

[Bruno Genovese]

Where do you live?

True technical diving requires a lot of time, effort, and equipment. It is certainly possible to do it on vacations, but it is not the easiest route.

Home is in the US, but I am spending a few years in Peru.

 

[_Ralph]

Some say stay with one instructor, others say don't .... (same with agencies)

I'm in the don't side of the line in the sand. I usually take 1-2 classes with instructors and then move on elsewhere for other classes.

Most of my instructors, I have the extreme lucky ability to dive with them before hand, and see how THEY look in the water and how THEY dive (and how students of theirs dive). This is one of my major decision making influences on instructors.

If they don't look the part doing the dives they do (simple or complex), then maybe I wouldn't want them to teach me.

You get different styles, tricks, emphasis, motions, eyes and experiences to draw and learn from. I generally make the assumption that the instructor teaching the course, should be diving at a higher 'level' of diving than the course being presented (except for in extreme circumstances, outside the normal scope of recreational diving)


I also look at feedback from previous instructors about other future instructors, in other locations, and even outside of a particular agency .... (i.e. this fall, I'm taking a cavern and Intro course from 3 different instructors, from 2 other agencies, on many recommendations from my previous instructors ... who also teach that curriculum in another agency)


As for courses, I would suggest taking any course you are interested in. So you are insisted in wreck diving, take a recreational wreck course (with the above paragraphs in mind). Get comfortable and master the skills and parameters that is presented in it, and then look at taking an advanced course (usually 'technical' than 'recreational') and progress from there. Same with Cavern and then progressing onto "Intro" or "Cave1" or "xyz"...


Just don't get hung up on xyz or bust for training .... I have cards from PADI/NASE/TDI/GUE (via 7 different instructors) and soon to be NSS-CDS (while adding another 3 instructors to the mix). Some organizations/courses have quite a bit of overlap, others don't, but allow me to expand my diving nearly anywhere I go, and with nearly anyone I happen to be diving with.....


_R

 

[blac86]

How my tec road map went (all courses tdi ( except apprentice cave) because the tdi instructor near me is awesome, not because I favor tdi over any other agency)

Advanced Nitrox - Intro to Cave - NSSCDS Apprentice Cave - Deco Procedures - Extended Range - Full Cave - Trimix - Advanced Trimix


Wreck divers will harp on all day that "cave training isn't wreck training" but that's because they haven't had cave training. I've talked go a ton of advanced wreck divers and instructors, and none of them can pinpoint anything they offer that isn't covered in full cave. They just want to feel special. Philosophically they are the same, wreck penetration requires at least some familiarity with diving in currents.

Treat any penetration on a wreck as seriously as any penetration into a cave and you'll be fine. Most cave divers that have problems on wrecks are because they didn't respect the dive and didn't run reels or map their way in and out.