Ripped off for my AOW training

[Deviance]

No, you didn't get ripped off. That sounds like most other Advanced Open Water course to me. It certainly sounds like mine, except I did Wreck, Deep, Dry Suit, Night, and Nav.

Unlike the name suggests, an Advanced Open Water certification doesn't make you an advanced diver. I end this post with this recommendation: Do Rescue Diver.

 

[supergaijin]

Research your dive centers and instructors- not all AOW courses are alike. The OP's experience sounds like it does not deserve the title of 'class'- rather 5 fun dives with a $100 laminated card at the end of it.

I would talk with the operator and offer critique.

 

[diving4ever]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience OP. That sucks. While I hear what other posters are saying, I do think you should take action. That said, I wouldn't take action with the agency, I'd take action with the dive shop that employs the instructor. When you pay for instruction you have the right to expect that the instructor will be diligent and thorough--and based on your account I don't think your instructor was. It’s difficult to make a go of a dive operation, and I think most owners would appreciate feedback if their team/staff isn't meeting expectations. It gives the owner or manager the opportunity to retrain or correct shortcomings and make their business more competitive. It gives you the chance to recoup part of your costs for a substandard product. If you don't get a positive response from the dive shop, I'd definitely post a review online...divers like me appreciate the candid feedback.

When I took my AOW, it was a real mix. The deep diving section was well covered and the dive was to 92 feet. We even had the chance to do a puzzle at surface and at depth so we could see how the added depth impacted our reasoning and speed. The navigation class was good as well, although I think we needed to review the exercises another time or two...no one (including myself) was really making a "square." More of a trapezoid thingy. Unfortunately on my night dive the instructor took off and totally spent the dive taking pictures and ignoring the students, which was unfortunate because one diver was having a VERY hard time with controlling their buoyancy, and another was sucking their tank dry. I spoke with the owner about the failings and she appreciated it. I know she passed the feedback along to the instructor and even though I didn't get a refund (I didn't ask for one), I felt like I was heard and the instructor would get the opportunity to learn and improve.

While many people may think AOW is a waste, I appreciate having formal training opportunities. It’s a good fit for my learning style and I feel accountable for doing the book work...which I'd blow off without structure. That said, it’s always through the subsequent diving that I really start to understand the lessons. Hope you get some positive results down the road.

Melissa

 

[RJP]

He may have had expectations of becoming an Advanced Diver; as is inferred in the course title.

I might regret pulling that string.

Well, the course title cannot "infer" anything, as a course title is not a sentient being so it cannot "deduce or conclude information from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements."

:d

Moreover, the course title is not "Advanced Diver" but rather "Advanced Open Water Diver" so although many people do seem to think that this implies "advanced diver" it comes down to the fact that people just don't read/comprehend well, often inferring something that is not actually stated (or even implied) by the words they read... or use.

 

[DevonDiver]

I'd take action with the dive shop that employs the instructor. When you pay for instruction you have the right to expect that the instructor will be diligent and thorough--and based on your account I don't think your instructor was.

I see no evidence that the OP didn't receive a diligent and thorough course. It is quite possible that all the necessary performance standards were met and yet, the course may still have been unfulfilling.

The certification agency sets out the scope and standards for any given course. The instructor/operation applies those. You cannot criticize the instructor/operation for providing nothing more than the minimum - if that's all you ask for, all that is agree by contract on purchase, then that is what you should be happy to receive. Complaining, especially publicly, about that could easily be determined as slanderous.

There are instructors/operators who routinely provide far beyond the bare minimum. They are obviously who you should look for.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Well, the course title cannot "infer" anything, as a course title is not a sentient being so it cannot "deduce or conclude information from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements."

:d

Moreover, the course title is not "Advanced Diver" but rather "Advanced Open Water Diver" so although many people do seem to think that this implies "advanced diver" it comes down to the fact that people just don't read/comprehend well, often inferring something that is not actually stated (or even implied) by the words they read... or use.

I stand corrected.

I suppose that I should clarify; although I am certain that you understood what I meant......


I DO realize that you were joking.......but there's always the word games that seem to get thrown around when this topic comes up.
Not directed specifically at you.


Any reasonable person could conclude that if they were going to sign up for a course that was called Advanced Open Water, that upon completion of such a course, they would possess the skills, or have been adequately taught such skills.....you know.....perhaps something that resembled a skill set that was sort of.....advanced.

As the OP posted....he didn't feel that he was taught much at all. This is similar to what many other people that have taken similar courses experienced.

What happens is, the playing word games, when it comes to this topic: "It's advanced open water......not advanced diver".

The fact is that there are many people that get ****ed by taking substandard courses.....and no shortage of industry "Pros" that defend it with childlike statements.

Meanwhile....so many are baffled why people drop out of diving. Maybe people are tired of being duped and having their wallets picked clean.

But....you're right, Man......it IS called "Advanced Open Water".......we're all retards for thinking that it might contain some actual content that even approached an advanced level of instruction.

OP....it's your fault for not comprehending......welcome to the world of "Pro" dive training.

My bad....for not comprehending that one.

---------- Post added November 26th, 2013 at 02:19 AM ----------

I see no evidence that the OP didn't receive a diligent and thorough course. It is quite possible that all the necessary performance standards were met and yet, the course may still have been unfulfilling.

The certification agency sets out the scope and standards for any given course. The instructor/operation applies those. You cannot criticize the instructor/operation for providing nothing more than the minimum - if that's all you ask for, all that is agree by contract on purchase, then that is what you should be happy to receive. Complaining, especially publicly, about that could easily be determined as slanderous.

There are instructors/operators who routinely provide far beyond the bare minimum. They are obviously who you should look for.

Very true.

---------- Post added November 26th, 2013 at 02:39 AM ----------

Apologies if I came across as heated in that post.
I just get tired of hearing newer divers (not that the OP is really that new)....describing feeling of getting short changed.

I love diving!...I really do.

But I sometimes get the feeling that the "industry" is just there to pick people clean.
That divers are seen simply as a means to feed the machine. I really feel that some people drop out of diving because they are made to feel that way; often, after taking these types of courses.

The fact is that the OP had an expectation of getting training that was "advanced" (in some way, ok?).
I don't care about any damn word games. He didn't feel he received that type of training.

Advanced Open Water is marketed as a damn "advanced" class. He feels strongly enough about it, that he started a thread about it. It's simple, and all too common; He doesn't feel like he got his $400 worth. It doesn't sound to me like he did either.

Somebody please explain to me why a diver can't walk into a "5 Star" resort and sign up for a class, and feel that he got his money's worth?
Why do we so frequently hear about divers feeling the exact opposite of that?


And when they mention it on a forum.....the response is usually along the lines of...you should have interviewed the instructor first. Or, "That's what you get for not having the N.S.A. do a background check on the instructor."

Really?.......what's wrong with a diver (a customer), having an expectation of service and substance?
We all have a concept of what "5 Star" service is supposed to mean, don't we?

Or is that another assumption.....or reading comprehension fail....if I conclude on my own that "5 Star" is supposed to mean something other than what I "think" it means.

Note: I should add that I realize the OP may not have actually taken his training at a "5 Star" resort. It came to mind while considering how things have words attached to them to indicate (or make the customer think so) the level those things are at.

Not to go off on a tangent; before someone jumps all over that one. Haha!

If someone goes on vacation and experiences bad service with a resort, restaurant, boat operation, retail store, etc. it's ok. People are happy to hear reports about it, and might factor that into their future trip plans.

Buy if anyone says anything bad about a "training" experience; that forbidden!

Oh noooo!!! Training is that thing which shall not be spoken negatively about. haha!
The fact is, many divers have felt the same as the OP after taking some courses out there.

OP...sorry you left with that feeling about your course.

It really sucks, Man!

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[dive_turkey]

But if anyone says anything bad about a "training" experience; that forbidden!
Training is that thing which shall not be spoken negatively about. haha!
The fact is, many divers have felt the same as the OP after taking some courses out there.

OP...sorry you left with that feeling about your course.

It really sucks, Man!

Cheers,
Mitch

You're not wrong. However, I would submit that these courses are exactly as they seem. A step-by-step money grab designed to build an industry as people progress through their chosen levels of dive proficiency. I suppose they also serve to limit liability here and there by putting responsibility on the individual diver. An example being my drysuit and EANx certifications. Now an organization can safely rent me dry equipment and fill my tanks with enriched air without being responsible for what happens below the surface because "I was certified."

Diving is a personal sport. Yes, you should have a buddy and be on a team, and that IS important. However, your comfort, proficiency, and even your knowledge is on you. Only you can obtain those things. It is helpful to have an instructor show you the ropes through the courses you pay for, but I would say it is equally if not more so beneficial to find a mentor and just learn on your own.
1) I don't read JUST the PADI books. There are dozens of titles out there which are all facinating reads and can advance your understanding of the underwater world far more than a "check the block" PADI course.
2) Use the forums, talk about experiences, read accident analysis', ask questions. Half the people here are either instructors themselves or have thousands of dives from which to draw knowledge.
3) Pay close attention to your own experiences and consciously learn from them. Take notes, write detailed dive logs, review them later or before a similar dive.

The point is, your class can be awesom with the right instructor, that much is true. However, it is more likely that your class will be little more than a price-hiked licensing fee and a few guided dives, which basically gives you the starting point to begin learning on your own.

I was lucky and had a close family friend as my basic instructor when I was a kid. My instructor for my advanced owns and runs the shop I dive out of, and will hopefully continue to dive with for the next few years. I think that contributes to the quality of the course, knowing that I will most likely be a loyal customer (and potential dive buddy) for a few years.

The point is, take it for what it's worth. I'm sorry you had a crumby experience, but don't let that be what limits your learning. Despite having good instructors, I still view my certifications as a PADI money-grab.

 

[NAM001]

I would guess that instead of calling the courses OW AND AOW . You call it Intro open water and open water. What is now AOW would ot command such a price with out question.

 

[cb5150]

I just finished my AOW cert - something I've been looking forward to for a while. I have been diving for about two years and before the cert class had completed 25 dives - 5 in CA, 10 in the Maldives, and 10 in the Caribbean. I've been lucky to have had the opportunity to dive such great places.

My AOW cert was extremely underwhelming. Navigation dive was cursory, the "deep" dive went down to 62 feet, there was a "boat" dive that was nothing more than any other boat experience, and the fish identification was a joke. All of the other divers in my various dives were right out of OW cert and had no experience diving outside of a class setting. During the navigation dive, one of the divers even kept popping up to the surface due to his inability to control buoyancy...and he was still passed to the next level!!! Most appallingly, not once did a dive instructor instruct us to do a safety stop at the end of dives. Although most dives weren't deep, shouldn't a safety stop be SOP?

At $400 for this class I expected to learn more about being an effective diver and coming away with new skills. Sadly, I think this cert was pointless and I would have done better spending that money on recreation dives. I'm thinking about writing a bad review of the dive shop and even asking for a partial refund. Am I overreacting? Would appreciate your thoughts!

Sounds like every course I have taken since OW. Except maybe Rescue Diver, that was pretty good. The rest, in my humble, non-slanderous opinion, were a complete waste of money.

 

[Storker]

The fact is that the OP had an expectation of getting training that was "advanced" (in some way, ok?).

The core of the problem, IMNSHO. Expectations versus reality. When you (general "you", not personal "you") got your driver's license, did that make you into a fully qualified driver? Not? So why would you (again the general "you", not the personal "you") expect that a C-card makes you into a fully qualified diver?

Why don't people realize that a C-card is... just a card? It's not a magic charm, it's just documentation that you've passed some minimum amount of training and should be able to go dive without seriously harming yourself or someone else, just like a driver's license. It is not a proof of your superior qualifications.

Myself, I realize that C-cards are just cards. My OW card makes sure my LDS will fill my tanks and that a vacation operator allows me to rent equipment, and my AOW card makes sure the same vacation operator allows me to dive beyond 18m/60ft and/or on walls without a hard bottom at 18m/60ft. It's up to me to decide whether or not I consider it safe, given my skills and experience. My C-cards leave it to me, not some guide - or cattle driver - to decide what is within my limits and what is outside my limits. The courses gave me the basics, my subsequent diving gave me the experience and developed my skills to whatever they are now. Maybe that's why I didn't feel ripped off when I was handed my AOW card¹ - even though I might have a thing or two to say about the depth of the curriculum...

"Here's your 500€, now give me my competence" seems to be an ever-growing mindset in this world, be it diving, schools, Universities, or whatever where people attend to obtain qualifications. Fewer and fewer people seem to realize that obtaining skills or knowledge isn't for free and that you gotta work for it yourself. Sigh.

And don't get me started on the impact of guided diving on skills development!
</rant>

¹ Which, incidentally, cost me about 200&#8364;