Right On or Rude?

[OE2X]

A good technique might be for the DM to ask the diver(s) if he/she/they want help at all.
For example:

"Hey Joe, are you happy with your gas consumption? (...or, finning technique, trim, buoyancy control, streamlining, dive planning, hand signaling, etc.)

It the diver says, "yes", then that's it. If the divers says, "no", then the DM is being invited to teach.

And what about a DM that could use some improvement? Do you think the DM would be happy to be instructed by a diver without being asked?

I think not.

I agree. Frankly if an instructor could lower my sac I'd be either be really happy or unconcious. Last time I checked my sac was .33 or .34 . I can get two one hour dives (where I flirt with NDL) at 100' on 32% on the same 119 or 130.

 

[Diver Dennis]

No. If its so bad, then the DM should tell them (in private) they can't do the 2nd dive or the DM or the operator should tell them the next day they have to go on the beginner boat, but there is no reason to berate them publicly in any case. My mother always told me "Two wrongs don't make a right."

Frankly if they were lying to me they don't deserve a private moment. By telling the dive shop they were experienced, they selfishly made the other people's dive less than it should have been.

 

[RadRob]

Direct and to the point sometimes comes off harsh or rude. The DM was exactly right when he said they need to breathe like a scuba diver. We always heard, "you want to be a grown up, act like one" or to the famous American Idol contestants, "you sound good, now let's get you to look like a star."

On a small dive boat, it is virtually impossible to pull them to the side and discuss things with them. The Hispanic culture is very much more laid back than Americans, so I would venture to guess he was saying it in a non-demeaning tone or attitude. What is rude to Americans is not always rude to other cultures.

In golf (which I play at least once a week, if not more), if someone has tips to help me improve my game, lay it on me. Unless you are Tiger Woods, you can use any help you can get to improve your game. Those who don't want help will never be as good as they can be. That's why there are COACHES.

 

[Diver0001]

What is rude to Americans is not always rude to other cultures.

and visa-versa as well, evidently.

R..

 

[francousteau]

I agree. Frankly if an instructor could lower my sac I'd be either be really happy or unconcious. Last time I checked my sac was .33 or .34 . I can get two one hour dives (where I flirt with NDL) at 100' on 32% on the same 119 or 130.

WOW!! IMPRESSIVE!!!
In your case, if you were unconscious, I think your SAC would go up.

 

[Storm]

As a rookie diver, if it was me getting the assistance the DM, and he improved not only my comsumptions but also helped me lighten up and trim up properly, I'd thank him, tip him, and probably buy him a beer afterward.

My ego may be slightly bruised by the initial comment, but the second he followed his comments up, with the offer to help, and backed it up with real assistance, the bruising would disappear.

 

[asaara]

I'm surprised that this would be a question at all, doesn't seem the slightest bit odd to me, but par for the course - the intent was clearly to help the diver, not to insult them, didn't see any evidence of snarkiness or name-calling there, which *would* be rude. I also agree that being taken aside privately would be more embarassing. So maybe I'm a little more blunt than many of the Americans around here, but so are the people I've dived with.

The exception is if the person telling someone to do things differently is either less skilled (ie: fresh PADI-wagon DM telling a DIR-er that they need to always wear a snorkel on every dive, silt kicker telling frog kicker they're doing it wrong), or if the person doing something differently is doing it in a way that works for them, is no less safe, doesn't hinder the group, etc., and someone insists on them changing (say, someone that likes their jacket BCD just fine, or is neurotic about other people touching their tank valves and can adequately demonstrate to anyone who's wondering that yes, their air *is* on, without the other person having to touch the valve)...

 

[cyklon_300]

In golf (which I play at least once a week, if not more), if someone has tips to help me improve my game, lay it on me. Unless you are Tiger Woods, you can use any help you can get to improve your game. Those who don't want help will never be as good as they can be. That's why there are COACHES.

of wanting or needing help. It's the timing and situation...if you're in the middle of a round, and some well-meaning type offers an unsolicited piece of advice, it can get in your head and ruin the tempo and swing thoughts you've established.

The people I play with consider it extremely poor form to offer any 'coaching' to a player (especially a stranger) who hasn't specifically requested your input. The KEY to this whole issue is asking for help...if you're not approached for advice, keep your handy tips to yourself.

I'll volunteer to follow you around some day, providing a critique after each shot and we'll see how helpful you find it to be...

 

[Storm]

of wanting or needing help. It's the timing and situation...if you're in the middle of a round, and some well-meaning type offers an unsolicited piece of advice, it can get in your head and ruin the tempo and swing thoughts you've established.

The people I play with consider it extremely rude to offer any 'coaching' to a player (especially a stranger) who hasn't specifically requested your input. The KEY to this whole issue is asking for help...if you're not approached for advice, keep your handy tips to yourself.

I'll volunteer to follow you around some day, providing a critique after each shot and we'll see how helpful you find it to be...

Again I speak as a rookie.

I have been playing golf for more than a few years now, although you probably couldn't tell from watching me play) but there are some slight differences between trying to help some one hit a ball better, and someone sucking their air dry while 60 feet down. No one ever dies beacuse they have a really bad hook or slice, hoovering could lead to disaster.

BTW I did one have a similar situation when playing golf....

I once had a scratch player give me, "on the links advice". His intentions were two fold. One to help my game improve, the other to help our foursome keep pace with the rest of the field. (The scratcher was parachuted into our threesome by the marshals.) He then proceeded to "club me" (in the golf terminology, not physically) for the rest of the round. His vast experience allowed him to evaluate my skills, or lack there of, and suggest the best club, and play for each situation. It was one of the best rounds I've ever played. Not only did I learn a whole lot about the game, but the confidence I built up over that round stayed with me for a while.

Again, it all depends on whether or not if the person is offering me advice to help me, or make themselves look better.

 

[cyklon_300]

A few select friends and I occassionally exchange 'minor' corrective actions on the course, but we still start with 'dude, can I give you a clue?'...Some times the answer is 'no'...and you had better respect that response.

If you're a rank beginner, you probably don't have an established swing procedure and if some scratch player throws you a freebie, it probably won't negatively affect your game and you can benefit from the advice. Not a typical scenario, tho.

The point is, some basic etiquette applies both on a golf course and on a dive boat. (Read my previous post about the DM that I could have spent hours correcting her inferior skills, but chose not to voice concerns because she didn't come to me for constructive criticisms.)

Again, my contention is that someone on a boat that starts a skills clinic before making even a token attempt at determining if the person is receptive to instruction is committing an act of insensitivity.