Rig Reccomendations

[Phoenix]

Hi Guys and Gals
a few questions regarding a tech rig I am speccing out, wasnt sure weather or not to put it here or in the equipment section, im ure someone will move it if it's in the wrong place

I am just getting into tech diving, it was initially the side of diving that interested me, the physics and physioligy behind it mainly, but it also sounds great fun if the proper instruction is recieved
I am about to undertake my adv nitrox and deco theory courses, and I was speccing up my rig, i'm following quite closley in line with what my instructor and some of the other tech divers in the club use and have a few queries

firstly, is it advisable to still use octs when using manifolded tanks with two sets of regs, would you not just class the second one as a spare? what about if you had a free flow and had to shut down one tank, what would you do then?

secondly, dual bladders, I understand that the case is you just use one bladder at a time, and in the event of problems you use the alternate? im guessing this is problems such as a seal break or such? being a puncture would more than likley effect both would it not?

the current kit i was going for was an OMS 100lb Dual Bladder with SS bp, along with an IQ Harness (new model without the built in pockets) as well as two ATX200 1st & 2nd stagesi will more than likley go with tall tanks rather than the 'dumpy' kinds, is there any advantage/disadvantage to this? i just feel the weight is more evenly distributed across my back, probably be getting 15lor 18l with some 10s for when im helping with rec stuff (i hear that using singles with a bw/wing doesnt always work out so well?) under this i will have a DUI Weight & Trim 2 and an Otter Britannic Drysuit (more than likley if they havnt released the new ones by the time i can afford it lol)

whats everyones input, what other important things should I consider when working out this rig? i hear alot of discussion about hose lengths and such, obviously this is likley to be important if I dont have 'octos' as i would need to make sure both my hoses were long enough

any input welcome and recieved

 

[globaldiver]

If you are heading into technical diving, about the only thing you probably would keep in your planned "rig" is the Apeks regulators.

You can read up a bit on the equipment configuration at WWW.GUE.com and look under DIR gear guide. If you are planning to dive doubles, you probably will not need much extra weight (depending on tanks and BP used), and a regular weight belt would suffice if you want some ditchable weight.

I have a DUI weight harness that has been laying in my garage for about 3 years now since I have no use for it anymore.

Sincerely

Anders

 

[globaldiver]

By the way, I have heard good things about the Otter suit. It is supposedly extremely durable.

Anders

 

[Phoenix]

thanks for the input, I have read the DIR guide a few times, im not really wanting to get into a To DIR or not to DIR battle, but I have taken alot of consideration with what they say, the only think I thought might get the thumbs down was the IQ harness, its a bit of a fancied up harness system and uses plastic buckles (which could more than likley be replaced)

i just find it a tad more comfortable than a one piece harness system

the reason I use the weight harness not the belt is not for the volume primarily, but for the comfort and security it affords, weight belts have a habit of slipping off my hips, especially in a drysuit, unless i yank it up so tight that i cant get any air into the lower portion of the suit (quite problematic) so the harness corrects that for me by shifting the weight to the shoulders

you are right though i probably wouldnt need excessive ammounts of weight in there

 

[scubahubby]

Some comments and suggestions.

I have the oms dual bladder and have been very happy with it. Since it has two power inflators, take advantage of the redundancy opporutnity and hook each to a different tank.

Get DIN valves. Not that o-ring failures with yokes are all that common, but they are very unlikely with DIN. Also DIN valves have other advantages (see below).

Re octopus. You should have a regulator on each tank. If you have a failure in one reg (1st or 2nd stage) you turn off that valve and switch regs and you still have access to all your air (thanks to the manifold) during your abort. If you have a bad valve failure (tank o-ring or manifold o-ring) then you close the manifold valve and switch to the reg on the good valve and you have access to one bottle (1/2 your remaining air) for your abort.

If you are thinking of getting into cave or wreck penetration diving you should mount your primary reg to the left tank. If the right tank valve rubs against an overhead and turns, it will open wider. On the left tank valve it will close the valve! Thus, my suggestion to mount your primary to your left tank. If one of the tank valves gets closed you want it to happen on the reg you are breathing so you find out about it right away. If your hang your spare off the left tank and it the valve rolls off, you will only find out when something goes wrong and you switch to your secondary... and you cant breathe.

Re hoses etc. Both for safety in confined and/or overhead environments, and for ease of movement (streamlining), you should pay careful attention to how you run all your hoses (and how long they are). Nothing should dangle, and you dont want any big loops protruding anywhere. Some suggestions:

- gear up and look at yourself in the mirror, its the only way to see if your hoses are well configured, keep all hoses tight to your body and within the profile of your shoulders & tanks

- consider running hoses under your arm pits

- consider running hoses from one tank behind your head and then around front (e.g. primary reg on left tank, hose goes behind neck and comes over right shoulder)

- consider alternate mountings for your first stage regs. There is no "right" way to mound the first stage. It can point up, down, left, right, ... Particularly when you use a DIN, you can use the tension of the attachement to the tank to hold the 1st stage in any desired position. For example, with my personal setup I have one 1st stage pointed down, and the other horizontal pointing toward the other tank. What will work best for you will depend on how you route your hoses and the form factor of the 1st stage regs you use (where are the LP ports?)

The most important thing to remember is that there is no one and only right way to configure your equipement. It depends on what you are doing, where you are doing it, what particular equipment you have, what you are comfortable with, ... Keep an open mind and try your options, and always ask questions when you see someone with an interesting configuration.

 

[globaldiver]

Phoenix, I am not trying to push yopu into a DIR direction, even though I think that most of what they stand for makes a whole lot of sense.
I just mean that it is good to be well informed before you make reality of your planned purchases. I myself have purchased a lot of stuff over the years that I never really neaded just because I did not inform myself in advance, and I think many other divers have done the same.

I have dived with people who used the OMS IQ-pack, and among soft BCDs, I personally liked the DiveRite Transpac II better, this since it seemed more streamlined (for a soft BCD). If you really are going into technical diving you will most likely spend a lot of money on equipment, so it pays off to buy the correct gear for your needs right away. You might want to research what equipment most tech divers in England are using. The tech divers I met in Sweden mostly used double 15L configurations with English Midland manifolds. Some of the more "high profile/experienced" tech divers in Sweden belonged to BSTD (Baltic Sea Technical Divers) and most if not all of them actually today dive according to the DIR principles, and are affiliated with GUE. Some of them were also part of the Britannic expeditions, and was sponsored by Otter, in the first expedition, to use the suit you mentioned.

As far as the weight belt goes, the harness will defenitely not slide off, so it might be a good idea. If a weightbelt is used, you should have it under the crotch strap anyhow, so you do not loose it unintentionally.

Sincerely

Anders

 

[BigJetDriver]

Phoenix once bubbled...
... the IQ harness, its a bit of a fancied up harness system and uses plastic buckles (which could more than likley be replaced)

I just find it a tad more comfortable than a one piece harness system.

the reason I use the weight harness, not the belt, is not for the volume primarily, but for the comfort and security it affords. Weight belts have a habit of slipping off my hips, especially in a drysuit, unless I yank it up so tight that I cant get any air into the lower portion of the suit (quite problematic) so the harness corrects that for me by shifting the weight to the shoulders.

Your IQ harness should be fine. If it is comfortable for you, go ahead and use it. After all, the military uses Fastex buckles in some extremely rough situations, including diving.

A weight harness is extremely comfortable, and much kinder to the small of your back, plus, it makes it easer to trim. You may find that, with a steel backplate, and other bits of gear, such as reels and lights, you may need little or no weight.

In answer to your earlier questions, the dual bladder wing is used one side at a time. If a puncture is severe enough to puncture both, you are reduced to shedding weight and putting gas in your drysuit.

In the manifold and twin cylinder set-up, you have separate first stages, and separate second stages, divided by the manifold valve. Generally, the primary regulator is on a long hose and is the one you breathe. It is also the one handed off to another diver if he or she needs it. The secondary is on a shorter hose and is held on the chest under the chin by a support "necklace" if you will, usually of surgical rubber tubing. This will be the one you will use after any hand-off. A third, and sometimes a fourth regulator set will be carried on one or two side-slung cylinders. There is no "octopus" per se.

Hope this helps. Glad you are advancing your diving by taking up tec diving. Have fun!

 

[Braunbehrens]

Just remember that in technical diving you don't want to sacrifice underwater safety for topside comfort. With this in mind, I would go for a one piece harness, which is perfectly simple and comfortable once you get the hang of it.

The military uses all kinds of stuff that we don't use, and they also accept a much higher casualty rate. While it may be important for a soldier to ditch his rig at the drop of a hat and run up a beach, you probably won't need to do that.

In any case, do your research well before making any purchases, unless you don't mind wasting money and enjoy selling things on ebay. Many people who get into the tech diving thing end up buying their gear 3 times before they get it right.

Hint, a tried and true system has it's advantages.

 

[globaldiver]

Phoenix, I must say that after having dived with Zeagle Ranger, DUI BCS and DiveRite Transpac II/RecWing, including some other rental BCDs, the most in- water comfortable "rig" I have ever used is the BP/wing combination. When you get it adjusted properly, it is a very comfortable and stable configuration.

The gear does, in my opinion, not have to be fancy, just very reliable and stable.

Sincerely

Anders

 

[Phoenix]

thanks for all your input guys, I do appreciate it, I will keep considering what to get as the input keeps coming in


cheers