Reverse Patch Diving

[Jim Lapenta]

A few 'patches' let you do things on some charters you wouldn't be allowed to do without them, or use a given gas, or rent types of gear, etc...

O.W.: Often hard to dive without it, unless you live near shore diving.

AOW or Deep: Some charters want it for dives over 60'.

Nitrox: To use nitrox.

Solo: To solo dive.

Rescue: To pursue professional rankings.

Professional Cert.s: To teach.

I don't recall offhand how often a Wreck cert. is needed to do a penetration dive off a charter boat.

I don't know offhand to what extent tech. cert.s are needed to get rebreather supplies, trimix, go on tech. charters, etc...

My point is, there are some 'patches' (cert.s) that have a practical use aside from the knowledge and skills acquired pursuing them, a use the diver might need.

Richard.

A std recreational wreck cert is not good for penetration. Not with any reputable op. In fact my wreck class, even though there is some penetration depending on the student and the site, is designed to show you exactly why you have no business going inside with a recreational cert. And that is made clear throughout the class. But some still want to. So I am taking the TDI Advanced Wreck Instructor class this month to offer the training that will allow someone to start working on penetration with a little deco thrown in as well.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[doctormike]

Again, my point wasn't that certification cards aren't useful. I even pointed out an example of how an experienced diver might need a card for certain activities. My point was just that training with a professional can be pursued outside the setting of an established class adhering to agency standards resulting in a specific c-card.

 

[SanDiegoSidemount]

Again, my point wasn't that certification cards aren't useful. I even pointed out an example of how an experienced diver might need a card for certain activities. My point was just that training with a professional can be pursued outside the setting of an established class adhering to agency standards resulting in a specific c-card.

Agree! Or even within the (right) established class as well. As TC pointed out, UTD has non-certification courses such as ESM (a buoyancy and trim intensive) and Essentials. These are targeted at developing personal skills. They tend to be small in size and highly personalized. It ultimately depends upon the instructor, but these courses might be a bit kinder than the GUE courses. Similar standards, different approach.

 

[waterpirate]

Wayne is a class act. Having spent some time being tortured by him myself, in a no-card offered or tendered scenario, I can say that anyone regardless of cert level would benefit from diving under the scrutiny of a more advanced set of eyes. If you think you would not benefit from such a scenario, I would urge you to take your blinders off.
Eric

 

[Darnold9999]

Lowvis

I took the Fundies class, did not pass, had trouble shooting a bag, never did go back and get the pass - didn't plan on going on so why bother. However, it was an excellent class and while boyancy and trim were certianly covered so were alot of other things. It was a great training course. I would suggest that even if you don't have perfect boyancy/trim you will get lots out of the course - or one like it. Doesn't particularly matter if you pass or not.

 

[lowviz]

Lowvis ...//... even if you don't have perfect boyancy/trim you will get lots out of the course - or one like it. Doesn't particularly matter if you pass or not.

Your post is certainly "on target" with respect to where I'm coming from. I'm in no rush to get anywhere, I'm just positioning myself to get the most from one or two extremely expensive courses that I'm considering as being worthwhile. Pass or Fail is not an issue, cards are nice but my boat knows me. I just text for a single seat on an upcoming dive and get something like "Ok" Not even a period after it, just "OK" if a spot is available. That is all I need, I don't really care how I look. And that is a large measure of my problem. I refuse to "fake" anything. Sometimes, like my last dive, I just hang out on the bottom totally fascinated by sea life.

However, I do want to progress in my diving skills. I have sets of back-mount double 119's, 120's, 100's, and 72's. So the 119's and 120's are the "big" gas loads, both about equal, but 119's are short and fat and 120's are narrow and long. Same for the 100's, short and fat, the 72's (filled to 3K) are about the same gas load but long and narrow. So two basic gas loads, four sets of very different tanks. I also have two very different wings that I routinely use. GUE suggests that you dive a particular configuration about 20 times before really understanding it. Do the math, we are talking years for just the assessments. I need a better plan than that.

I'm really off-topic, so this will be the last...

Ever since failing my solo course, I have been working quite hard to pull all this together. I can achieve trim by fussing with one particular configuration, but it still escapes me how I can predict trim with any given collection of needed/available gear right off the blocks. Chances are fabulous that if I cease all motion I will roll axially or radially.

At this point, I'm pretty sure that I could tune one single configuration and use it to "fake" fundies and get a rec pass. Big whoop. There is some physics here that they don't teach and I haven't figured out yet. So, before I pay dearly for a course that "features" trim, I want to see the instructor hang in trim for three minutes with only breathing controlling his/her depth...

 

[SanDiegoSidemount]

There is some physics here that they don't teach and I haven't figured out yet. So, before I pay dearly for a course that "features" trim, I want to see the instructor hang in trim for three minutes with only breathing controlling his/her depth...

Breathing for depth for any length of time (3 minutes to 3 hours) is reasonable to expect. At UTD this is the one of the very first skills taught to beginning OW divers, and is the starting point for pretty much all other skills classes like ESM and Essentials. To become a UTD instructor you must have this skill completely nailed. Probably the same for GUE as well.

As for completely motionless, you'd expect to see a tiny bit of fin sculling (ankle flicks) especially in open water with current, etc. to maintain a constant lateral position. But not very much, and the depth control should still be 100% breathing based.

Based on what you outlined above, I'm sure there are any number of tech instructors who would be happy to work you through your questions & issues, with or without a formal class or "patch". Shouldn't take 20 dives per tank set either.

 

[doctormike]

Your post is certainly "on target" with respect to where I'm coming from. I'm in no rush to get anywhere, I'm just positioning myself to get the most from one or two extremely expensive courses that I'm considering as being worthwhile. Pass or Fail is not an issue, cards are nice but my boat knows me. I just text for a single seat on an upcoming dive and get something like "Ok" Not even a period after it, just "OK" if a spot is available. That is all I need, I don't really care how I look. And that is a large measure of my problem. I refuse to "fake" anything. Sometimes, like my last dive, I just hang out on the bottom totally fascinated by sea life.

However, I do want to progress in my diving skills. I have sets of back-mount double 119's, 120's, 100's, and 72's. So the 119's and 120's are the "big" gas loads, both about equal, but 119's are short and fat and 120's are narrow and long. Same for the 100's, short and fat, the 72's (filled to 3K) are about the same gas load but long and narrow. So two basic gas loads, four sets of very different tanks. I also have two very different wings that I routinely use. GUE suggests that you dive a particular configuration about 20 times before really understanding it. Do the math, we are talking years for just the assessments. I need a better plan than that.

I'm really off-topic, so this will be the last...

Ever since failing my solo course, I have been working quite hard to pull all this together. I can achieve trim by fussing with one particular configuration, but it still escapes me how I can predict trim with any given collection of needed/available gear right off the blocks. Chances are fabulous that if I cease all motion I will roll axially or radially.

At this point, I'm pretty sure that I could tune one single configuration and use it to "fake" fundies and get a rec pass. Big whoop. There is some physics here that they don't teach and I haven't figured out yet. So, before I pay dearly for a course that "features" trim, I want to see the instructor hang in trim for three minutes with only breathing controlling his/her depth...

+1 for the coaching session... you are a perfect candidate for it!

You are an experienced, comfortable northeast diver who has already identified a roadblock to your progress. For the price of a few gas fills and an afternoon at Dutch Springs, you can probably make huge advances in your technique without committing to the time and expense of a full course.

I'll also bet that one of the first things that they will say is to try to standardize your gear. Why would you need four different types of doubles and two wings? I dive double 119s for everything up here (except for the occasional single tank shore or bottle dive), and it really helps me to get my gear issues dialed in. Another thing that Wayne did for me last year (when I took his advanced wreck course) was to go over my rig and strip off all of the unnecessary complications. Nothing quite as nice as a clean rig, IMO...

 

[markmud]

A few 'patches' let you do things on some charters you wouldn't be allowed to do without them, or use a given gas, or rent types of gear, etc...

O.W.: Often hard to dive without it, unless you live near shore diving.

AOW or Deep: Some charters want it for dives over 60'.

Nitrox: To use nitrox.

Solo: To solo dive.

Rescue: To pursue professional rankings.

Professional Cert.s: To teach.

I don't recall offhand how often a Wreck cert. is needed to do a penetration dive off a charter boat.

I don't know offhand to what extent tech. cert.s are needed to get rebreather supplies, trimix, go on tech. charters, etc...

My point is, there are some 'patches' (cert.s) that have a practical use aside from the knowledge and skills acquired pursuing them, a use the diver might need.

Richard.

Hey DRich,

You nailed my profile. Let me qualify who and what I am regarding diving. I am the recreational diver who likes to jump off a professionally operated dive boat and swim around for about an hour.

Do I come back aboard with more gas remaining than most on the boat and close to the DMs reserves? Yes.

Do I bounce of the reef and damage the ecosystem, NO.

Am I relatively trim and comfortable in the water? Hell yeah!

Do I come aboard with less nitrogen loading then others? Usually (Nitrox).

Do I exceed 3.16 pp ata of nitrogen? No (not by much anyway).

I am happy being a decently skilled and safe recreational diver who can go on any recreational dive boat and dive within recreational limits, solo or buddied-up.

I CAN'T HOLD A CANDLE TO MANY OF THE POSTERS ON THIS SITE IN TERMS OF BEING AT THE PINNACLE OF DIVE SKILLS.

I collected patches so I can dive the way I like to dive. And, I proudly flash my Solo Cert and Nitrox Cert when handing over my liability release.

markm

 

[UrbanJungle1966]

When I first got my OW cert I was into the hype of getting certifications. The AOW was a given just so I was allowed and had some idea of what to do at greater depths. Rescue Diver was so I had some idea how to get myself or my buddy out of trouble. Nitrox as I go up a mountain to get home so figured it makes sense to reduce my Nitrogen levels as much as possible.

So then I went along to a DM introduction thingo at my LDS and at this point I went yeah not for me. The other final nail in the cert coffin for me was a guy I met when holidaying by myself at Tulamben. His cert was OW and he had given up logging dives when he hit 1000 dives about 10 years ago. Yeah learnt a bit from him .

So now I just play about doing my own thing. My current thing is pretending I have a freeflow reg and after reading a post on here I usually when doing my safety stop take of my bcd then sitting on my tank turning it off and then on each time I want a breath. That and using my octo for as long as I can stand such a crappy reg. Hmm ok plus swimming along upside down and doing somersaults trying to keep at the same depth.