Rescue scenario..

[Remora]

Apples (Rec Diving)
- take him to the surface

Oranges (Tech Diving)
- As per Rick's response.
- In a minimal deco stop sit (10',20-25 min), if no surface support (don't jump me here Rick I agree with you, but it does happen), you can either inflate the BC/dry suit and float him/her, in doing so probably sealing their fate. Second option; attempt to keep him/her on the line with you. Second option would definitley hinge on a number of factors such as:
- personal confidence in maintianing nuetral bouancy for both divers during deco, use of jon lines ect
- sea state including current,temp,vis,topside cond
- gas remaining (although this should not be a problem)
- ability to maintain DD (distressed diver)regulator in position and monitor DD for further problems.

I'am sure other things would have to be considered as well, the bottom line would be in any case you'd have to make your discision on the understanding that only one fatality be the worst possible outcome.

 

[ScubaBaby]

Just a quickie note on the subject!
I have just completed my Rescue Diver with PADI - great course!
Anyway, i was told that no matter what the living, breathing, heart beating person ie you, is the person you put 1st. For all exams and that its easy to say until you are in the position of diving and it actually happens.
Its never happened to me thank god but i have only ever dived with people i know and am close to - when it comes down to it i would be more concerned about them than myself.
At the end of the day a decomp chamber can sort you out but your dealing with someones life!
I go with the majority and say on all 4 i would ascent immediately!
-x-abby-x-

 

[Warhammer]

Two hours was just an example. Exactly where would you draw the line on skipping the deco and surfacing with your buddy?

As far as safety divers go, I'm not familiar with the technics of deco diving, but I had assumed they would be the exception rather than the rule in most cases.

 

[Dr Deco]

Dear readers:

While the exact reasons for decompression sickness are not known, there does not really exist a bends/no bends point for a population of divers. You cannot just be “on the hairy edge.”

If someone were in trouble of the type described, it would probably not make any difference if the safety or short deco stop were omitted. The rescue diver could descent immediately (within five minutes) and complete what was needed for that individual.

For the case where the injured diver is NOT breathing, it is very important that something be done to assure that the airway is open and gas in the lungs does not become trapped and expand on the way to the surface.:nono: A decade or so ago, individuals were experimenting with a method whereby the rescue diver placed his knee into the chest of the non-breathing diver and, while holding him/her, pressed and forced to lung air out.

Perhaps some of the readers have an update on what can be done to non-breathing divers as they are helped to the surface.
:idea:
___________
Dr Deco

 

[Rick Murchison]

While concern for overexpansion injury is a real one, the nature of "stopped breathing" all but obviates its danger except from great depth. If there hasn't been aspiration of water, there will be minimal air to worry about as the relaxed (stopped breathing) diaphragm will leave only tidal air in the lungs anyway. If there has been aspiration there is even less air. Under any circumstances, if the regulator is in the mouth, leave it there - if not, do a quick finger sweep to insure the tongue isn't swallowed, put a regulator in the injured diver's mouth and purge it. Keep the head back in the "straight airway" position for the entire ascent. If you can, fit a quick "Heimlich" in as you half the depth (if you start at 120', do it at 60, 30, 15 and 7). That should keep tidal volume from becoming dangerous even if you do have a blocked airway requiring "burping."
---------
As Dr. Deco says, the bends/no bends "point" isn't - to my mind surfacing the injured diver and getting him to surface help is well worth the risk.
And I will reitterate, if you have a serious decompression commitment like 2 hours, you *will* have a full support team - or you won't live to dive much more..
Rick

 

[ScubaBaby]

Ermmmmm.......
Quoting Rick Murchison:
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"if the regulator is in the mouth, leave it there - if not, do a quick finger sweep to insure the tongue isn't swallowed, put a regulator in the injured diver's mouth and purge it."
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To start with, this is in my mind so it is probably completely wrong, but surely by purging the reg when its in the unconcious victims mouth is forcing air into their lungs at the bottom which on ascent will then expand and therefore cause risk to the lungs of the victim?
Also, maybe it is different with different organisations, but PADI's Rescue course says that if the regulator is still in the victims mouth then on ascent you hold it in place, however if it isnt in their mouth already, ascent without the regulator in there mouth - it could be tricky putting it in there mouth.

Maybe it is just me, but i still wouldnt put the reg back in their mouth if it had fallen out.
(I'll probably get a rush of replies say i am wrong but i am only saying what i have been taught - honest!)

-x-abby-x-

 

[Rick Murchison]

Purging the reg won't force air into the lungs - try it yourself in the pool - all it'll do is clear the reg and mouth of water, so if the victim should happen to attempt to breath he won't aspirate more water.
Rick

 

[striking viking]

A couple of factors would play into my decision. Are your NDL from the tables or computer or Military limits? How close of a buddy is your dive buddy? Is their breathing labored or shallow or normal tidal volume? I don't know about anybody else, but unless I'm very close friends or family with my d/b, I'm not risking injury to myself for what some one else has gotten themselves into. This doesn't mean that I won't help them, I'm simply looking out for #1.
1. I would probably go to the top regardless of any of the factors I indicated. I would feel that safety wasn't a large issue. Although he is still breathing and hopefully maintaining an airway, assessment and treatment would be better organized on the boat or shore.
2. If I had any doubts about my safety, I would do the safety stop. Your buddy is still breathing, so you have some time on your side. Airway and breathing are of utmost importance. It may cause more damage to your dive buddy to add DS to whatever ails him.
3. Go to the top with him for the same reason as #1. If it is possible to purge their reg in an attempt to force air into their lungs, do it. I don't know if I would take the chance of taking the reg out of their mouth for attempting rescue breathing. If they took water into their lungs-especially salt water-it could be disasterous; plus, if they took a spontanious breath while their reg was out, they would asperate saltwater into their lungs--saltwater drowning are much worse that freshwater drownings. They do have a couple of minutes before their muscles relax which would allow water into their lungs, but it's not worth the consequences.
4. Tough call. This is where the various factors would really come into play. I would try to stimulate them enough to possibly initiate spontainious breathing by grinding my knuckles into their chest. I would try to cover the vents of their reg and purge it to try and force air down into their lungs. I would try and find a pulse, if they had one, I would definitely stay. If I couldn't find one-which doesn't mean it's not there-I would try and do a modified hiemlich manuver over their chest to try and create some type of perfusion and recheck for a pulse. Three minutes goes by like three seconds when your that busy. I would not send them to the top alone. Right now you are their best chance of making sure they don't asperate (anymore) water. If you send them up alone, they may not be seen until you are finished with your stop. Something else to consider if they go up alone is if they puke, they will asperate it into their lungs which will complicate things down the road if they survive the original problem. If you let the person go alone you will be covered under the Good Samaritan Law, if you're in a professional capacity, you will be sued for patient abandonment. That's my $.03.
I WROTE THIS AFTER I READ THE INITIAL QUESTION, AND BEFORE I READ THE FOLLOW-UPS, SO IF I SOUND REDUNDANT.....
THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO WITHOUT HAVING READ PRIOR INPUT.

 

[Kane(adian)]

Normal Ascent, a slower ascent if ndls were exceeded, and if there were heavy deco needs, then I would signal "the others" on the boat to come help, by inflating whatever was available and sending it surface bound.

 

[jbd]

for me. As for the lung overexpansion; it was my impression that the air in the lungs at depth would naturally expand and naturally vent itself through the persons airway. No other manuevers needed. The only thing that I can think would stop this would be a laryngospasm.