Rescue of an Unconscious Diver Underwater

[Joneill]

I wonder if that includes oxygen overdose induced episodes.


Here's a thought: if they didn't post their misinformation, then how would they ever hope to learn? I hate it when I see people getting clobbered for being wrong. We don't need to chase those people off: we need to engage them so they can learn a better way. As I pointed out, I think the subject is an awesome one and I am glad they brought it up. Anyone reading this can figure out which method is more reasonable.

Yeah, it can be frustrating when you see people talking out their butts, but really it's a great opportunity to set them straight. Recently we were discussing CO in CCRs. I erroneously assumed that since sorb took out CO2, that it would also take out CO. Whoa, was I wrong! Fortunately, the hospital stay was short after my drubbing and I good naturedly made and posted some memes to commemorate my faux pas. We can't know it all. Sometimes our collective understanding and even protocols change over time. Then there was the time I posted how/why I leave an arrow. WHOA! You'd have thought I had silted out a cave and was an accident waiting to happen. When I first started cave diving, line arrows were kind of new and cookies were just around the corner. Somehow, I missed the memo and I posted what you would call "misinformation". Thank goodness I did. I learned a lot from both of these threads even though I believe that some of them believed I was a stroke through and through.

So post what you believe fearlessly. You might get swatted down a bit if you're wrong... just don't get discouraged by it. You're here to learn, and this environment is far less harsh than many of the Scuba instructors of yore. Don't let it piss you off, rather be happy that you've been corrected. Those cyber wounds will heal.

OK - point taken. These types of misinformation threads bug me as a new diver as the OP's intent is not at all to share useful info - they are really just schilling for their site. Unless you follow up on the discussions that ensue, you could easily walk away with bad info.

 

[The Chairman]

taught 'rodeo' style

Bwahahahaha! I love the name. Consider it stolen.

Personally, I believe having a planned method to your madness is far more important than the specific method you decide to use. Inventing the wheel while under duress is never a good thing.

Unless you follow up on the discussion that ensue

You are encouraged to do just that. You probably know more than you think.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

When I did my Tech training it was always advised that if the person is seizing to wait until the convulsions stop before bringing them up at all. The seizures will stop once the PPO2 level drops. As the father of a person with a seizure disorder, I can tell you that during the seizure the airway is closed. Bringing them up, while they are convulsing, is going to exponentially raise the risk of a lung over-expansion injury. If they still have any air in their lungs.
Bringing an actively convulsing diver up from depth is a pretty good way to ensure they end up dead.

 

[boulderjohn]

When I did my Tech training it was always advised that if the person is seizing to wait until the convulsions stop before bringing them up at all.

I was taught that, too, but it is controversial. A recent UHMS workshop statement discussed it and recommended getting the diver to the surface ASAP. If the diver does not have a regulator in the mouth you especially have to get to the surface regardless of the sage of the seizure.

 

[boulderjohn]

I was always taught to surface the diver from behind, "rodeo" style. In my tech training, I found it can be a lot harder that way due to the different equipment.

• With doubles, it is difficult to get good control because of the size of the tanks. It is really easy for the diver to go first completely vertical and then go over backwards. I found I could control him better with my elbows locked on the two posts.
• When I had to surface my instructor in another class, he was wearing a big hummer of a rebreather. He chastised me on the first attempt for not holding the regulator in his mouth, but the problem was I absolutely could not reach it with that rebreather between us.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Good summary article with a fair Flow Chart guide of some very ad hoc procedures::

Alert Diver | Rescue of an Unconscious Diver

I was taught that, too, but it is controversial. A recent UHMS workshop statement discussed it and recommended getting the diver to the surface ASAP. If the diver does not have a regulator in the mouth you especially have to get to the surface regardless of the sage of the seizure.

Controversial because the workshop and review authors read like a who's-who in Hyperbaric Medicine & Decompression Science Physiology. . .

Reference :
Mitchell, Simon J; Bennett, Michael H; Bird, Nick; Doolette, David J; Hobbs, Gene W; Kay, Edward; Moon, Richard E; Neuman, Tom S; Vann, Richard D; Walker, Richard; Wyatt, H Alan (2012). "Recommendations for rescue of a submerged unresponsive compressed-gas diver." Undersea and Hyperbaric Medicine 39 (6): 1099–1108. http://archive.rubicon-foundation.org/10161

 

[boulderjohn]

Good summary article with a fair Flow Chart guide of some very ad hoc procedures::

This is the 2007 workshop. The one to which I referred was in 2012, and it has a number of differences. I have attached it here.

 

[Kevrumbo]

This is the 2007 workshop. The one to which I referred was in 2012, and it has a number of differences. I have attached it here.

Alert Diver | Rescue of an Unconscious Diver

John, the above 2013 Alert Diver article states as background context that the workshop committee was formed in 2007 for the study of in water resuscitation procedures, and then appears to reference the exact same review & recommendations position paper published in 2012 that you attached above:

Mitchell, Simon J; Bennett, Michael H; Bird, Nick; Doolette, David J; Hobbs, Gene W; Kay, Edward; Moon, Richard E; Neuman, Tom S; Vann, Richard D; Walker, Richard; Wyatt, H Alan (2012). "Recommendations for rescue of a submerged unresponsive compressed-gas diver." Undersea and Hyperbaric Medicine 39 (6): 1099–1108. http://archive.rubicon-foundation.org/10161

 

[NYCNaiad]

I wonder if that includes oxygen overdose induced episodes.Here's a thought: if they didn't post their misinformation, then how would they ever hope to learn? I hate it when I see people getting clobbered for being wrong. We don't need to chase those people off: we need to engage them so they can learn a better way. As I pointed out, I think the subject is an awesome one and I am glad they brought it up. Anyone reading this can figure out which method is more reasonable...

Completely agree that flaming people or chasing them off doesn't help them learn. And I really appreciated your well thought out answer because I haven't thought about this topic in a while.

As a side note: Not sure if you saw my earlier post & whether you agree with this solution, but I wrote...In the SB Terms of Service (ToS), it notes: "Our focus is to advance safety, knowledge and enjoyment within the diving community by encouraging the mutual exchange of experiences, ideas and opinions". Therefore, a case could be made to update the ToS noting that a persistent pattern of original posts without any additional participation is considered spam and will not be tolerated.

 

[The Chairman]

Therefore, a case could be made to update the ToS noting that a persistent pattern of original posts without any additional participation is considered spam and will not be tolerated.

Sounds like a great "Suggestion" and should be the subject in the forum by that name!

I am enjoying the discussion.